The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 12, 2018, 06:11 PM   #1
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 296
Seeking Advice - New AR SBR Build

Greetings you rifle folks. I've been on TFL a while but have stayed primarily in the reloading forum. The folks in there have been great and I see a few of the same folks haunting this area so I thought I would venture out ....

I am considering a new AR build; I already have one in 5.56. I am thinking this one will be a 300 BLK. I believe I want to do an SBR but initially I'll have it as a pistol while waiting for the stamp. What I'm seeking specifically is a discussion on the receivers.

First, I am not a brand-name snob regarding the receivers. As a matter of fact I'm thinking I'd like to find a manufacturer that provides custom engraving so I can have the SBR engraving done prior to anodizing. There's something about having "CAL MULTI" on one side with "CAL 300 BLK" on the other that I don't like. My own serial number might be cool too. I definitely do not want to do an 80% lower in order to have a blank canvas.

A second consideration is someone who might provide a matched set. By matched I mean an upper/lower combo that won't rattle when assembled like it's a lowest-cost build. I've seen some offered that apparently have some sort of screw to tighten up the mating, but I don't have experience with that. I'd like "standard" features (forward assist, deflector), and standard fitment.

Finally of course if I don't have to spend a mint on the receivers I'd prefer not to, ya know?

So, do any of you have any advice/ideas for me? What am I saying?! This is the Internet. Of course you do!
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old January 13, 2018, 08:17 AM   #2
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 5,816
There's a TON of 300AAC "pistol" length uppers on the market right now. Another TON of "pistol" lowers also on the market. PSA was selling assembled pistol lowers(P in the serial #) with the EPT trigger for $130 a while back. If you go that route, you're always covered re:having a short barrel upper on hand.
I'd look at a 10.5-11.5" upper as that will give you adequate length for the 300.
I don't see a little wiggle between upper and lower as being a big deal but if you do, use a wedge to minimize it. Custom stamping/engraving and SBR engraving before finishing?? You're not likely to achieve that with over the counter assembled parts.
Mobuck is offline  
Old January 13, 2018, 08:50 AM   #3
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobuck View Post
PSA was selling assembled pistol lowers(P in the serial #) with the EPT trigger for $130 a while back. If you go that route, you're always covered re:having a short barrel upper on hand.
You don't have to have a special "Pistol" lower in order to make a pistol. It just has to be a lower that has never been assembled into a rifle. Taking that pistol and adding a stock makes it a rifle and for that I'd need my stamp in hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobuck View Post
I don't see a little wiggle between upper and lower as being a big deal but if you do, use a wedge to minimize it.
It's not a big deal ... none of my issue M16's or M4's were ever what I would call "tight." However, this is a special build and I'm going to be paying attention to details like that. I realize wiggle between the receivers don't have a bearing on accuracy since the chamber, bore, and sight plane are all on the upper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobuck View Post
Custom stamping/engraving and SBR engraving before finishing?? You're not likely to achieve that with over the counter assembled parts.
Right, "over the counter" to me means just that - you get what everyone else gets. That's why I'm in search of a manufacturer that will do custom work. I'm also not looking for assembled parts. For example, York Arms has exactly what I want in a lower, for the paltry sum of $330. I know I'm going to have to pay a premium, I'd just like to make sure I'm paying the market price. Since I can only find one source right now I have nothing to compare it to. They also don't offer a matched upper so I would be taking a chance there. I could always email and ask them if they would match the lower to an upper that I ship them.
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old January 13, 2018, 02:53 PM   #4
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 296
So I've since learned that you can have a custom serial number, you can have a custom caliber, but you cannot have custom manufacturer or location stamped/engraved. The reason being the manufacturer is actually the manufacturer of the lower. This is a bummer and means I'm either going to have two manufacturers (or technically a manufacturer and a maker) on my lower, or I'll have to go to an 80% lower.

Hrmph.

I spent the last couple hours looking at various YouTube videos, centering in on the 5D Tactical and 80% Lowers Gen 2 jigs. Both use a router which seems easier to me (since I own one) and doubly so since I don't own a mill.

Decisions decisions.

Honestly I'm frustrated enough to bag my original idea and just go with another PSA or similar lower for this project. Durned gub'mint!
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old January 14, 2018, 09:00 AM   #5
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 5,816
"You don't have to have a special "Pistol" lower in order to make a pistol. It just has to be a lower that has never been assembled into a rifle. Taking that pistol and adding a stock makes it a rifle and for that I'd need my stamp in hand."

Correct. BUT. Do you want to argue this point in the field/at the range with some overzealous LEO who is intent on slamming your butt into the ground?
I have FOUR pistol marked lowers(2 in use and 2 in waiting) simply because the price is the same and the hassle is reduced.
Mobuck is offline  
Old January 14, 2018, 09:43 AM   #6
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobuck View Post
Correct. BUT. Do you want to argue this point in the field/at the range with some overzealous LEO who is intent on slamming your butt into the ground?

I have FOUR pistol marked lowers(2 in use and 2 in waiting) simply because the price is the same and the hassle is reduced.
I intend to collect my "questions", send them to the ATF, and carry copies of the response letters with me. Sure that's a hassle but it won't be the greatest one I face. As I said I'm intending to make an SBR so I'll have the form 1 with me when I do. I also live in a place where I cross state lines three times just to go to the store and my range is in the other state. That means constantly renewing via ATF Form 5320.20 for the permission to do that. Yes it smacks of "Ihre Papiere bitte" but that's the law.

I'm familiar with the LEOs and range officers I shoot with and have had a lot of these conversations with them because some of them are doing the same thing. They are men and women at the end of the day and not looking to ruin anyone's day for fun. I fully expect that my right to own an SBR will be challenged at some point, but trust that something between a conversation and a visit from my very 2A saavy lawyer will clear it all up. That's the risk I take by making an NFA item. I wish that were not the case; I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

One thing in my favor is that my range is full-auto friendly. Not only are automatics semi-common, but you can actually rent one of a handful of full-auto items to play with. People watch and giggle, they don't look for reasons to make it into a conflict. They say that you can fire anything up to 50 BMG provided it's under 4,000 FPS. This is an indoor range mind you. I have an acquaintance who is going to bring his Barrett and shoot it there once just to say it's been done. The range owners are looking forward to it. I am pretty sure I'll be outside watching through the window.

Anyway I appreciate your concern and advice. My BLK will be in "pistol trim" for less than a year if all goes well. I'm going into this eyes open and even in this thread my plans have changed so I may yet get a "Pistol" marked lower just to have it. Who knows? It ain't over till the credit card charge clears.
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old January 14, 2018, 11:48 AM   #7
Sharkbite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 2,700
I have both SBR’s and pistol versions of AR’s. The only reaction i ever get at the range is “Wow, thats cool”. Ive had the local PD’s SWAT guys come over and want to shoot my suppressed 300blk.

Never had anybody ask for stamps or any paperwork. Its just a non issue.
Sharkbite is offline  
Old January 14, 2018, 12:01 PM   #8
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite View Post
I have both SBR’s and pistol versions of AR’s. The only reaction i ever get at the range is “Wow, thats cool”. Ive had the local PD’s SWAT guys come over and want to shoot my suppressed 300blk.
It certainly seems like that at my range right now. People are just interested and excited about new things. I hope it stays that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite View Post
Never had anybody ask for stamps or any paperwork. Its just a non issue.
Hopefully my experience is the same - but I'll be ready if it's not.
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old January 14, 2018, 11:29 PM   #9
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western PA
Posts: 3,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBussy
You don't have to have a special "Pistol" lower in order to make a pistol. It just has to be a lower that has never been assembled into a rifle.
That's not entirely correct. Notice that your link is from 2010. That was before ATF Ruling 2011-4, where the ATF finally recognized that the 1992 SCOTUS decision in US v. Thompson-Center Arms Co. actually applied to all firearms and not just the one in question.

Per that SCOTUS decision and per ATF Ruling 2011-4, if the lower was first assembled as a pistol, it can go back and forth between being assembled as a pistol or a rifle. If it's first assembled as a rifle, and can't ever be assembled as a pistol.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old January 15, 2018, 09:29 AM   #10
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 296
That's not entirely different than what the older letter stated. The new ruling simply failed to address the ability to go back and forth. Ruling 2011-4 basically adds the ability to have a "convertible."

Thanks for that reminder though. I wish that ruling was easier to follow ... i.e. in plain English so that an over-zealous LEO could understand it in the first quick pass (not taking a pot-shot, simply acknowledging the fact that a LEO needs to be able to quickly and clearly understand it or else he's going to punt to his DA.)
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.

Last edited by LBussy; January 15, 2018 at 11:14 AM.
LBussy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07356 seconds with 9 queries