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November 12, 2019, 12:10 PM | #76 |
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This thread gives me the urge for a 28ga.
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November 12, 2019, 04:22 PM | #77 | |
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I always have the urge for a 28ga. Still don't own one.
The .410: Quote:
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November 12, 2019, 08:41 PM | #78 |
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Part of the problem is that the Mod/ Full chokes used on the 410 go back to the card wad days. I had my FAIR opened up to Skeet 1 & Skeet 2 (Fixed) and it does what I expect out to 25 -30 yards. The 410 was NEVER a 40 yard gun but too many people (makers included) tried to make them one.
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November 12, 2019, 09:58 PM | #79 | |
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I shot more than a bit of backyard trap in my school days (avg 100rnds a week) which might not seem like a lot, but to a cash starved teen in the late 60s it was a lot. Had a foot trap (Trius trap if I remember right), so it wasn't as random as a hand thrower. had a bolt action .410 and a Winchester Model 12 12ga. If you were 'on target" the .410 always broke the clay birds. Usually 2-3 large pieces. Full choke, no doubt. Same degree of on target with the 12 (also full choke) turned the birds into powder. Very cool to see. The .410 broke them, the 12ga smoked 'em! I did see my brother shoot the center out of a clay pigeon with the .410, without breaking the outer ring. Blind luck, and we both knew it. The only real "problem" with the .410 is that it is a shotgun, and people think that because of that it should do everything other shotguns do, and do it as well, and that is simply not the case. Want to wingshoot birds out to 40yds? The .410 is a poor choice. A really good shooter can do it, but that same shooter will have better results with a bigger bore shotgun. Want to eradicate pests at shorter ranges, where the 12ga is simply just TOO much gun? .410 is your ticket there.
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November 13, 2019, 08:40 AM | #80 | |
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I bring the gun to the trap range occasionally- just to try my hand there with the smaller gun. Shooting from the 16 yard line, by the time i get to the bird it is over 30 yards away. I know where the gun shoots and how it patterns. Lots of big holes past 30 yards. Maybe if I were faster on the bird....?
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“Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; November 13, 2019 at 08:48 AM. |
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December 11, 2019, 04:45 PM | #81 | |
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So I've heard, but from what I've seen, reports of .45LCs inaccuracy out of .410 Bore cylinders is little more than assumption based on theory-craft. My Judge Magnum has been perfectly accurate shooting everything from 200gr JHPs to 255gr SWCs, despite the fact that its cylinder is chambered for 3" .410 shotshells. Furthermore, every .45LC accuracy test I've seen on YouTube has showcased good accuracy, including videos from folks who are critical of the Judge such as Paul Harrell. So in practice it would appear than any adverse effects the 2.5"-3" chambered cylinders of the Judge has on .45LC is too marginal to make a meaningful difference at average handgun distances. (Heck, Hickok45 had no problem hitting the gong at 80 yards with both the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor.) So yeah, much like how shooting .38 Special out of a .357 Magnum, .44 Special out of a .44 Magnum, or for a much closer comparison, shooting .45LC out of a .460 S&W Magnum begets no practical loss of accuracy, it appears that even when it comes to more extreme differences between the OAL of cartridges and the subsequent distance the bullet must travel before it is engaged by the rifling, no appreciable loss of accuracy occurs when shooting .45LC out of the elongated cylinders of .410 Bore chambered revolvers. Now, I'm sure that somewhere on the web their exists some botched or otherwise deliberately sabotaged test in which someone shoots .45LC squib loads out of the Judge/Governor which obviously keyhole out of the barrel or otherwise someone with a defective Judge/Governor with a canted barrel or fouled up rifling showcases their Judge/Governor's lack of accuracy shooting .45s which someone will inevitably call up as proof, but in my own personal shooting as well as a number of tests I've seen on YouTube, the Judge nor the Governor shows no appreciable loss of accuracy when shooting .45s.
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December 12, 2019, 04:41 PM | #82 | |||
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What does .410 do well?
Quote:
Quote:
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December 12, 2019, 05:15 PM | #83 | |
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December 13, 2019, 05:50 PM | #84 | |
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I do have personal experience shooting the .45Colt/.410 out of a T/C Contender. Might have just been MY barrel, but my experience was that from that barrel my .45 Colt loads did not match the accuracy of that same ammo fired from my Ruger Blackhawk. I got a .45 Colt (only) barrel and the same ammo shoots as well or slightly better than it does in the Blackhawk. Every gun is a bit different. And just because you or I haven't seen a thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just means we haven't seen it...
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December 13, 2019, 08:31 PM | #85 |
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Oh, don't get me wrong, a firearm chambered exclusively for .45 Long Colt will almost assuredly get better accuracy than a Judge because the Judge has shallow rifling, I'm just saying that reports of it having extremely poor accuracy are greatly exaggerated.
So yeah, if you were to pit the Judge against your Blackhawk, you'd most likely get better accuracy from the Blackhawk, even against a 6.5" Barreled Judge. But you'd still be able to hit your target with the Judge as well. Generally speaking, accuracy from the Judge is best described as adequate. At reasonable self-defense distances, it will hit to point of aim.
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December 13, 2019, 09:37 PM | #86 | |
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Not meaning to bash the Judge/Governor in concept, while they are revolvers, they aren't revolvers like other revolvers. I had an opportunity where a nest of rats (real rats, you know the ones almost big enough to put a saddle on...) under a barn needed eradication. a few of them managed to get out and the .410 Contender did yeoman service that day. I can see where a Judge would have done well, even better as a repeater. But they aren't quite the same as something like a Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt in several ways. My years with 12ga gives me faith in buckshot (under suitable conditions) but its because of the mass. The .410 buckshot just doesn't seem that good, to me. However, the .410 slug is another matter. The .410 is an excellent choice for a number of chores, but for wingshooting bigger bores are much, much better.
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December 14, 2019, 01:10 AM | #87 | |
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Quote:
But seriously, kicks less, easier to carry, can be challenging because of it's reduced performance.
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December 14, 2019, 09:19 PM | #88 | |
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However, I am employed by no such publication and have nothing to gain nor lose by speaking honestly , ergo my statements aren't euphemisms. When I say that it has adequate accuracy at reasonable self-defense distances I mean that .45LC will hit to point of aim, provided of course that the firearm is in proper working condition. (i.e. If your Judge isn't an example of Taurus' infamous quality control.) Heck, it will generally hit to point of aim well in excess of any typical self-defense distances, well out to any distance that one could expect to maintain accuracy with the .45LC cartridge out of a handgun, but seeing as the Judge is primarily a nightstand gun for me, in-home distances are what I'm most concerned with, I've never personally attempted a true long-range shot with it, so I cannot attest to anything more. I will say this much though, Jerry Miculek once did a video on the Judge, and he seemed satisfied by its accuracy.
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December 15, 2019, 05:57 PM | #89 |
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.......it puts smiles on young kids faces.
and my old mug too.
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December 15, 2019, 07:30 PM | #90 |
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I don't know about the rest of you but I bagged plenty of rabbit and squirrel with a .410.
It puts down small game rather well. What it is that you want it to do?
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February 26, 2020, 12:50 AM | #91 |
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What does a .410 do well? If you have a good quaulity .410 like a Browning or Beretta they can be pure magic. If you walk out of a dove field with a limit There is no better feeling for a wing shooter. Takes a lot of practice though.
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February 26, 2020, 01:38 AM | #92 |
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A 410 fits into small guns for small shooters and the shells are small so you can fit a whole box in your pocket. A 410 at 20 or 30 yards with six shot is effective on Rabbits and squirrels. The long shot string and limited shot make wing shooting more difficult than with a 20 or 12. A skilled shot can kill pheasant with a 410 but you have to be close and accurate with your lead because the effective pattern is small. A 410 is probably best as a snake gun up close. Far better than shot from a pistol. A 410 will never be as good as a 20 ga overall. rc
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February 26, 2020, 06:33 AM | #93 |
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Do well? For one thing, they are easier to carry. I am at a point where my lower back problems limits my mobility. It is difficult to walk much, difficult to bring a larger gun up, mount it and shoot. I can do those things with a .410 more easily.
Last weekend, I went pheasant shooting on a preserve. I was using an inexpensive ATI O/U that weighed about five pounds. The flushes were, mostly, close and I took four birds with half a dozen shots. I was happy with that. One of them was going away and at 30 yards at least. Two shots fast, mod&Full. I saw the tail feathers go, thought that I had missed it but the dog found it. Note: sometimes I experiment with "things" that are really impractical. This hunt I brought along five Federal TSS Turkey shells....Just to see. They worked very well but are way too expensive to use for general hunting at about six bucks a bang. 13/16 ths of #9 TSS. Even reloading my own would be too expensive for my tastes. TSS shot is $$$. Pete
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March 26, 2020, 10:00 PM | #94 |
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I got bit by the 410 bug last February(2019). Bought a Yildiz 410 O/U. Killed the limit of doves on opening day with it. Started reloading for it. Then I bought a Remington 870 in 410. This year I bought a Tristar G2 semi auto in 410. to date I loaded a little over 4000 2 1/2" & "3' 410 shells. I use these guns weekly on my skeet field. Plus I rabbit hunt with them also. I make my own #8 shot so a reloaded box of 410's cost me about $2.50 a box.
I have no use for a 410 pistol. To me they are useless. |
March 28, 2020, 03:19 PM | #95 |
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In a full-size pump shotgun using Federal 000Buck, it makes a decent SD tool that doesn't beat you to death....
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March 28, 2020, 06:44 PM | #96 | |
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5 pellets of 000 Buck is nothing to sneeze at, cuz we gotta cover our sneezes and coughs these days with the coronavirus. Personally I shoot 12 gauge poorly, 20 I've never shot, and .410 I will assume is like shooting a .40 PCC. For people still reading this thread, in regards to self defense, how much more effective is 20 gauge vs 5 pellet 000 Buck .410?
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April 3, 2020, 11:36 AM | #97 |
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What does it do well?...........It makes me happy. On the skeet field/dove field and with the beagles on rabbits. I now have 3. A semi-auto(Tristar G2), a pump(Remingotn 870) and an o/u(Yildiz SPZ-ME). This coming from a guy that has shot 12's for the last 50 years. Reloading the 410 cost me about $2.50 a box.
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April 4, 2020, 06:54 AM | #98 | |
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The 20 ga. will give you more pellets on target with about the same size pattern if fired from the same size choke. That I can test. Each pellet .410 or 20 will carry about the same amount of energy. I am not sure that there are 000 loadings for 20 gauge shells. The largest that I have seen for sale in 20 gauge is #2 buckshot which is not available in .410.
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April 4, 2020, 04:39 PM | #99 |
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The problem I see with the .410 is ammo cost. I own 3 and love them but a reloading kit (LEE) for 20 with an interchange for 12 gauge is just under $100 from Midway. The least expensive MEC .410 reloader is about $235 and if I read the adds correctly you need a different one for 2.5 inch and 3 inch. I keep looking at my old rifle single stage press and thinking about modifying it for .410. The shell holder and the ram would have to be opened up a bit to allow the larger primers to drop and some company would have to make a sizing die. I just wish Lee would make a conversion to their basic shotshell press. It would be mostly plastic, so it would not cost a lot to manufacture. OH WELL! Grant.
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April 5, 2020, 09:46 AM | #100 |
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The 410 is a squirrel gun. If you can get a shot at rabbit (rather close), you can hunt rabbit with it. I consider it a poor bird gun because birds of often out of range regarding the 410s rather narrow sweet spot.
I have never really considered the 410 to be a self defense weapon but I guess it could be used successfully in that role. The thing is rather devastating at close ranges. As far as what it may do better than the 12 or 20? I wouldn't say better, but I would say cheaper and easier. It efficiently takes small game with an ease of effort/comfort and at a lower price point than a 12 or 20. That is my general impression
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