M1 Tanker; .308 or 30-06

['88Scrat]

It's decided, I'm gonna buy a "Tanker" Garand because reasons

The only question is what caliber? I've talked to a few guys who say that the 18.25" Tanker barrel is much more pleasant to shoot in .308 but the 30-06 seems much more pure to the platform. .308 would also be slightly cheaper to feed as well.

Whatcha think?

[dahermit]

Originally Posted by '88Scrat

It's decided, I'm gonna buy a "Tanker" Garand because reasons

The only question is what caliber? I've talked to a few guys who say that the 18.25" Tanker barrel is much more pleasant to shoot in .308 but the 30-06 seems much more pure to the platform. .308 would also be slightly cheaper to feed as well.

Whatcha think?

I had the misfortune to shoot next to a guy shooting an M1 Tanker Garand in a Service Rifle Match. I believe his was in .308 (but not sure now). It had a terrific muzzle blast.

[Reloadron]

Whatever trips your trigger since it will be your rifle. Personally I like the .308 Winchester versions but here nor there. Neither will shoot a 220 grain 30 cal bullet and difference between a 30-06 Springfield and 308 Winchester amounts to a few hundred feet per second. Personally I was never really attracted to the "tanker" version of the M1 Garand. The tanker version takes the 24" barrel down to a 18" barrel if I am not mistaken so an op-rod is shortened. As to caliber they should both shoot fine.

Ron

[Screwball]

Personally, I’d look at a Mini-G from Shuff’s. A little shorter, but personally feel it is a better design. Not to mention Tim does great work.

.308 and .30-06... if you have another Garand chambered in one, I’d get the same to make it less likely to put the wrong ammo in the wrong gun. If neither, I’d go .30-06. Original caliber. If I do .308, rather an M1A.

[hammie]

@Scrat: With your user name, I would have guessed that your first ammunition choice would be acorns, but apparently you have discarded that option.

I envy you. Either chambering will be fun, but if it were me, I would choose the .30-06 sprfld. I would purchase loads specifically for the M1 service rifle or hand load for the M1 service rifle. Hornady has the GI loads in their (I think) last two manuals. The original military loads are a little milder with lower velocities, and likely lower chamber pressures, and should tame the muzzle blast somewhat. Because of the potential for bent operating rods, I'm always a little leery of shooting .308's or hot commercial .30-06 in an M1. Although the tanker with a shorter operating rod might be less prone to bend, because of a lower bending moment.

[44 AMP]

Neither will shoot a 220 grain 30 cal bullet ...

Are you referring to the cartridges, or the Garand rifle??

and difference between a 30-06 Springfield and 308 Winchester amounts to a few hundred feet per second.

In commercial ammo, yes, but in GI ammo, no. GI .30-06 ball M2 is a 150gr bullet at approx 2750fps +/-. SO IS GI 7.62Nato. The cartridge was designed to DUPLICATE the bullet weight and speed of the GI .30-06.

Commercial sporting ammo in both calibers is hotter than the GI spec ammo. Enough so to cause problems in unmodified Garands

Whoever is building that "Tanker" Garand should use the modified Garand gas port plug, which allows venting excess pressure. IF they don't, don't shoot anything but GI spec ammo in the gun.

['88Scrat]

LOL

@hammie: Well in all fairness, acorns were my first choice for ammo back when I was 6 and had a slingshot!

[bamaranger]

I've wanted a Tanker style Garand for a very long time. I decided early on that if I ever do buy one, it will be in .308. Logic is twofold:

-you're already stepping away from the original design by going the Tanker route. Changing calibers is no big deal once you've taken the step to shortening the rifle.

-I figure the .308 will be more efficient and perhaps a wee bit milder in the shorter barrel. Short '06 Carbines of any description are notorious for blast and flash.

Shuff's Mini-G takes the concept about as short as it goes. I've not looked recently, but his website was nicely done when I did.

[BluRidgDav]

Since there were NO "Tanker Garands" actually issued to troops in the field, there is NO "original" or "more pure" caliber, so, .308 is the obvious choice.

Or save yourself a lot of parts & logistics headaches and just get an M1A Scout Squad or SOCOM16: detachable magazines and more optics & stock choices ......

[Bart B.]

A competitor at a DCM leg match was disqualified because his tanker Garand was externally modified.

In equal quality match grade Garands, those chambered for 7.62 NATO ammo tested more accurate than the 30-06 versions. Same thing with bolt action match rifles. After 2 years of the use of the shorter, fatter 30 caliber cartridge in matches, all the records held by 30-06 match rifles were broken with match rifles using this new cartridge.

The increase in unbreakable ties in scores is why target scoring rings sizes were reduced in 1966 to about half of what was established in the early 1900's.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by Reloadron

Neither will shoot a 220 grain 30 cal bullet and difference between a 30-06 Springfield and 308 Winchester amounts to a few hundred feet per second.

Actual velocity difference in barrels with equal dimensions is about 100 fps.

Both have shot match bullets weighing up to 250 grains with MOA accuracy at 1000 yards.

The reason M14 rifles had a 1:12 twist 22" barrel was it shot the same 30-06 bullets more accurate leaving about 90 to 110 fps slower.

30-06 is more accurate with a 1:12 twist barrel. With the fastest 150 grain bullets, a 1:13 twist is perfect.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Are you referring to the cartridges, or the Garand rifle??

In commercial ammo, yes, but in GI ammo, no. GI .30-06 ball M2 is a 150gr bullet at approx 2750fps +/-. SO IS GI 7.62Nato. The cartridge was designed to DUPLICATE the bullet weight and speed of the GI .30-06.

Commercial sporting ammo in both calibers is hotter than the GI spec ammo. Enough so to cause problems in unmodified Garands

Whoever is building that "Tanker" Garand should use the modified Garand gas port plug, which allows venting excess pressure. IF they don't, don't shoot anything but GI spec ammo in the gun.

The 270 Winchester has higher pressures than either one.

Why does the 7.62 M118 match ammo bullet leave 90 fps slower than the same bullet in 30-06 M72 military match ammo with equal 50 cup peak pressures?

[GeauxTide]

Short barrel = 308.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Commercial sporting ammo in both calibers is hotter than the GI spec ammo. Enough so to cause problems in unmodified Garands

If you're referring to average peak pressure, I disagree.

Show me the cartridge, pressure measuring method and pressure numbers you're basing that on. Then compare that to what's in this document:

https://www.docdroid.net/shd8/the-tr...d-762-nato-pdf

Aren't the same barrel profiles and actions used for cartridges producing higher pressures?

[ATCDoktor]

I’ve got an old Arlington Ordnance Tanker in 308 I bought back in 1994 from South Coast Guns in El Toro California.


Here it is sunk in a hogged out drill stock I picked up at a yard sale many years ago.


It’s very handy and an exceptional shooter the 8 shot group above was fired at 100 yards with 40 year old Maylasian surplus 308.

[Bart B.]

If one cares to compare 30-06 maximum average CUP chamber pressure for commercial and military versions, they will see they're both the same.

Same comparison with the smaller 308 and 7.62 cartridges shows a 2000 CUP difference. That's about one third of the extreme spread of pressure allowed.

Same thing using transducer PSI pressure measurements in the 60,000 and 62,000 averages.

Proof load pressures for both are about 30% higher.

[Cheapshooter]

but the 30-06 seems much more pure to the platform.

Nothing about a "tanker" is true to the platform in the first place.
Your choice, but I would go with the 308.
I remember seeing tankers advertised in pre '68 gun laws. They said this is what you need ifyou are trapped in a phone booth by a grisly bear. M1 Tanker in 358 Winchester! Now that would be a find!!!

['88Scrat]

I know that the T26 was never put into production. When I say "pure to the platform" I'm referring to the M1 in general being much more widely chambered in 30-06.

I did little Googling and found a spacer block that you can put into a .308 chambered Garand that eliminates the possibility of accidentally chambering a 30-06 loaded en block clip.

My biggest concern would be using the wrong ammo in a .308 caliber Garand. For example I know not to use commercial 30-06 in my full length Garands but does the same apply to a shortened version? Should only a certain type or grain of .308 be used or does this not apply to a shorter rifle?

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by '88Scrat

My biggest concern would be using the wrong ammo in a .308 caliber Garand. For example I know not to use commercial 30-06 in my full length Garands but does the same apply to a shortened version? Should only a certain type or grain of .308 be used or does this not apply to a shorter rifle?

People have been shooting commercial 30-06 ammo in Garands since the 1950's. Western Cartridge Company 180 grain match ammo was probably the most accurate. Military teams bought thousands of rounds from Remington and Winchester besides WCC.

Bullets heavier than 180 grains may have too slow of powder so they are not to be trusted, they may bend op rods unless a vented gas plug is used.

[jrothWA]

I have two standards M1's , one is Cal.30, the other is 7.62NATO.

I favor the 7.62, as it hangs out there with teh standard length barrel.

YOur choice but 7.62 will be more common.

['88Scrat]

Hmm...

This proving to be a tougher decision than I expected although I am leaning towards the .308

Aside from a spacer block accessory for the .308 there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference in function. Anybody run one with a brake? Seems a brake like the one made by Smith Enterprises could cut down on the heavy recoil out of a 18" barrel

That said I wouldn't want to be standing next to a guy shooting one probably. The muzzle report and flash out of my Scar 17 is considerable, although that is a 16" barrel.

[44 AMP]

Seems a brake like the one made by Smith Enterprises could cut down on the heavy recoil out of a 18" barrel

Heavy recoil???

Well, its all relative, I guess, but a regular M1 Garand lists at 9.5lbs. What does a Tanker Garand weigh?? 9lbs?? 8.75??

I don't find .308 or even 06 recoil "heavy" from and 8+ pound rifle. Try shooting it from a 6.5lb carbine bolt gun!

What you get from the 18" barrel is BLAST, which can make felt recoil SEEM heavier than it actually is.

And a word about add on brakes, anything you hang on the barrel can change the harmonics when fired. Often changes the POI and could possibly change the overall accuracy as well.

[Bart B.]

The USN 7.62 Garands with 12 inch twist barrels were more accurate than 30-06 ones with 10 inch twist barrels.

[JustJake]

I have a Tanker M1 in .308. Great shooter too.

[Rangerrich99]

Unless I was made of money, I'd shoot the .308 win. Cheaper both manufactured or reloaded, basically the same ballistics, easier to reload if you go that route.