Can Pocket Carry Be Beat? Observations from the Laser Range.

[rpseraph]

A solution would be have a 2nd pistol quickly accessible to weak hand, like weak hand pocket.

This made me laugh, the idea of dual wielding LCPs

[jfruser]

Originally Posted by mobuck

I'm saying that the only time pocket carry works is when the carrier is standing.
I can beat you senseless with a soda straw before you can draw from pocket carry while seated in a vehicle, a restaurant booth, or any other scenario in which you can't stand upright immediately.

Almost as true for any strong-side carry, OWB or IWB. In the end, being seated when the balloon goes up leaves one at a disadvantage in most any case. Bludgeoning or bladed attacks from up-close may be best met with a blade or empty-handed technique, no matter where one's pistol is holstered.

Getting to your OWB/IWB-holstered pistol that is both under a cover garment whilst your seat belt(1) is attached is SLOW. If you are a big guy or driving a snug vehicle, almost as slow as pocket carry. Best case for strong-side belt holster carry in a vehicle is when driving a full-sized pickup with bench seats. So don't order those bucket seats.

Seated in a chair or booth makes for an easier strong-side belt holster draw, but still not great and still slow. Sweeping your cover garment is easily fouled by chair or booth. Rising and then drawing may be cleaner, but time is lost while rising and it very well may mark one out to the threat by the sudden rise and/or tumping over the table.

So if the primary concern is drawing while seated, the on-body solutions are (in order of quickness and ease of access):
1. Driving holster
2. Tanker holster
3. Shoulder holster
4. Cross-draw
5. Ankle

And off-body center-console "carry" as well as an easily accessed car holster are options.



(1) Yes, some training focuses on this and provides techniques that attenuate some of the problems. But those techniques can leave your pistol exposed and no longer concealed from passers-by and your cover garment arranged unnaturally. No free lunch.

[KyJim]

I favor a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster and have three in different sizes. I carry a Ruger LCP, Sig P238, Kahr CM9, and, until recently, a SW Model 38.

[CDW4ME]

Originally Posted by rpseraph

This made me laugh, the idea of dual wielding LCPs

I shot a LCP 380 one hand weak hand, my hand did not like it; Glock 43 or PM9 preferred by weak hand over LCP 380.

[jmorris]

Guns successfully pocket carried for a length of time...
1911 Officer's ACP 9mm

That’s one big pocket. Reminds me of a childhood friend that could bench press 140lbs in elementary school and leg press 470 lbs in middle school. He was so big he could put a VHS tape in his pocket as an adult.

[Sharkbite]

So if the primary concern is drawing while seated, the on-body solutions are (in order of quickness and ease of access):
1. Driving holster
2. Tanker holster
3. Shoulder holster
4. Cross-draw
5. Ankle

You left out Appendix

[jfruser]

Originally Posted by jmorris

That’s one big pocket. Reminds me of a childhood friend that could bench press 140lbs in elementary school and leg press 470 lbs in middle school. He was so big he could put a VHS tape in his pocket as an adult.

The pocket was a large panel sewed onto the side of the shorts that covered most of the thigh. Could not tell the empty pocket from the pocket with the 1911OACP.

Originally Posted by sharkbite

You left out Appendix

Not so much. The list regards "drawing while seated," not "drawing while copping Zs in a Barcalounger." AIWB, like strong side OWB/IWB, is sub-optimal for drawing whilst seated in chair, booth, or automobile.



AIWB is fine & dandy, but it has limitations like all other carry methods, despite it being the new hotness.

[Sharkbite]

AIWB, like strong side OWB/IWB, is sub-optimal for drawing whilst seated in chair, booth, or automobile

If thats what you think, you should spend some time getting instruction in AIWB. While sitting in a vehicle (even with a seat belt in place) AWIB allows an easy draw stroke.

I can even discreetly get a full firing grip while seated in a restaurant booth with my hand below the table top and under my shirttail.

[jfruser]

Originally Posted by sharkbite

If thats what you think, you should spend some time getting instruction in AIWB.

Not a thought experiment for me. I used AIWB(0) before it became the new cult hotness. I'll put it to use, when appropriate and/or the best for my particular situation, after it is stale and passe and many folk are left wondering what all the fuss was about. Fads: Not just for teenaged girls.


(0) With pistols small as J-frames and large as GM 1911. Even have two AIWB solutions for belt-less carry during vigorous activity.

[Sharkbite]

Not a thought experiment for me. I used AIWB(0) before it became the new cult hotness

Its not a thought experiment for me either. Ive been carrying in that position for almost 25 years.

As i sit here, chilling at a resort in Scottsdale Az, im carrying AIWB. I would have ZERO problems drawing from my chair. Ive drawn from inside cars (front and back seat) without having to even remove the seat belt.

Im not sure why you would say you cant draw while seated. Thats one of the strongest reasons for AWIB.

[AffordableArmory]

This is a great conversation! I just recently decided to try pocket carry. Until recently, I’ve always carried a mid-size gun (Glock 19, Sig P320 Compact, etc.) strong side, IWB. I never had an issue with it, and in fact considered pocket carry to be harder for a number of reasons.

1. I wear jeans 98.632% of the time. Granted they’re not skinny jeans, but they do fit right, which means the pockets are kind of tight and not very big.

2. Pocket carry would require a smaller gun, which in itself introduces a few problems. Am I okay carrying a smaller caliber (.380 vs 9mm)? Is my marksmanship good enough (tiny guns are harder to shoot)?

So, I recently switched to 5.11 jeans, which are designed for people like us who carry guns every day. My style didn’t have to change and I’m not wearing “I have a gun” pants. Problem number 1 solved.

As to number two, I have been pocket carrying a Taurus Spectrum for about a month now. I use a Kydex holster with a hook to catch the pocket on the draw. The 5.11 jeans have hidden pockets in the back that make it easy to carry a spare magazine. And I practice with the gun quite a bit, and am comfortable with my level of marksmanship. So problem 2 is covered.

I think the bottom line is to get comfortable with how you choose to carry and practice, practice, practice. Before I ever left the house with this current setup, I practiced my drawstroke hundreds of times.


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[jfruser]

Originally Posted by sharkbite

Im not sure why you would say you cant draw while seated. Thats one of the strongest reasons for AWIB.

Well, that there ^^^ is the problem. I did not write that "you cant draw while seated" with AIWB. (Or with strong side OWB/IWB.)

I listed means of carry that are superior/easier to access when seated or in an automobile while strapped in. Originally in regard to strong-side, but they also beat AIWB for seated/strapped in.

Again:

Originally Posted by jfruser

So if the primary concern is drawing while seated, the on-body solutions are (in order of quickness and ease of access):
1. Driving holster
2. Tanker holster
3. Shoulder holster
4. Cross-draw
5. Ankle

You misread me, so cool it with the monomania. AIWB is legit, superior in some applications, inferior in others, and not the easiest means to access a firearm 'if the primary concern is drawing while seated.'

Enjoy your life.