The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 9, 2018, 07:29 PM   #26
jonnyc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,731
Well, I wanted something different for my second AR that wasn't 5.56. I like the compatibility and reliability of the BLK, and I enjoy shooting supersonics in a 16 in. barrel. It has a bit more kick at the shoulder and down-range, and my "combat max" range is 200-300 yds.
Good decision for me, and I'm happy.
__________________
2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!!
Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance
PM or email me for 2024 show details.
jonnyc is offline  
Old April 9, 2018, 08:04 PM   #27
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,235
It’s popular because you can make a gun that shares most of its components with the AR15.

There’s similar and better performing cartridges out there, but converting a rifle or building a new rifle in a different caliber is pretty much plug and play.

It’s a pointy bullet fired from a pistol sized cartridge in a much longer barrel. Doesn’t seem like anything I’d be willing to stand in front of.
It’s not the miracle cartridge, but it is very convenient and the ammunition is sold everywhere.
I don’t care about cheap ammunition if I’m going to use it to hunt.
rickyrick is offline  
Old April 9, 2018, 11:50 PM   #28
Ledslnger
Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2018
Posts: 60
I am using mine for pure fun. I have an AR, but shoot my Encore in BLK more. Shoot all types and weights of bullets...tracers, etc. It is fun to plink with and fairly cheap too. Lots of bullets available....something is always on sale. It can shoot 110 to 240 gr bullets roughly. Hitting steel with a 200 gr bullet is fun. It really rings it.
Ledslnger is offline  
Old April 10, 2018, 12:56 AM   #29
Damon555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2012
Posts: 384
Quote:
The size of an MP5
The ballistics of an AK
The ergos of an AR
The ability to shoot supers AND subs WITHOUT any changes (just swap ammo)
A ctg that is not hampered by short barrels (designed around 9” tubes)
Easy to make brass
Lots of bullet choices vs 7.62x39
If that's what your looking for then I guess it makes sense.....personally I want my rifles to act like rifles and my handguns to act like handguns......Other than in a 22 target rifle I have no use for subsonic rifle ammo......but like the other gentlemnan, I just don't get it.
Damon555 is offline  
Old April 10, 2018, 02:16 AM   #30
Ibmikey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2013
Location: Now relocated to Texas
Posts: 2,943
I really like the 300 Blackout for plinking, hunting at closer ranges and even shooting holes in paper on occasion....I shoot only supersonic loadings and contrary to the OP’s opening statement the cartridge can take larger game given optimum conditions, I took a 350plus pound Texas boar with my AAC Handi rifle using a hand load 125 gr TNT bullet and supersonic loading. Since that time I have built a couple of AR’s and an AR pistol that is a barrel of fun to shoot.
I shoot hogs at ranges out to about 125 yards as any hog that does not go down immediately will hit the dense brush and die beyond my ability to retrieve him.
The 300 BO is not the hottest kid on the block but I really enjoy shooting it in my AR’s, Handi rifle and Ruger Ranch.

Last edited by Ibmikey; April 10, 2018 at 02:28 AM.
Ibmikey is offline  
Old April 10, 2018, 06:01 AM   #31
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,655
@jeep: there is no barrel length restriction on a pistol AR; all that matters is that the stock/brace is in compliance. The brace issue itself is a pretty nebulous one.

Lots of statements are made about comparing the 300 BO's ballistics being inferior to the many alternative rifle and pistol cartridges.

I shoot a fair amount of both pistol and rifle cartridges across a pretty wide range of different weapons. I hand load ammunition for all of them, and I "blueprint" the performance with a labradar.

So what does my 300 BO pistol do?
1) It has very low recoil--lower than any other center-fire AR cartridge IMO
2) Very easy to shoot and keep on target--with a simple red-dot I can shoot 2" or less groups at 100 yds--without a stock to shoulder weld.
3) Low powder consumption in reloads.

The 300 BO truly is a pistol cartridge--which happens to use pointy rifle bullets.

I do not fire big bore hand guns with the weapon braced near my face--like I can the 300 BO.

I cannot think of even ONE other cartridge that delivers the same blend of soft-shooting ease in a pistol configuration and still delivers significant performance to 100/150 yds. For some that is just a niche--and maybe is a niche that is useless for you personally--but it is still a performance niche that others like and see a use for. There is no "self-delusion" here.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old April 10, 2018, 06:58 AM   #32
jersurf101
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 553
What do you do with a pistol caliber lever action rifle?

I always have wanted a .357 magnum in an AR platform and the 300 blk fits that bill with better ballistics. Is it a 400 yard deer slayer, absolutely not. Last time I checked m the practical medium game range of the .223 isn't really much more than 2 or three hundred yards.

I have been standardizing to .308 cal projectiles .308 win, 3006, 300wsm, 30-30 and now 300 blk. Ammo is 15 dollars a box at Walmart and brass is inexpensive and available. You can also make it from .223 and 5.56. It has become my garbage disposal for old pulls and with pistol powder is cheap to shoot.

Could I hunt with it, darn Skippy and I wouldn't feel under gunned. My 16 inch barreled AR is a tack driver with sierra 125s and Lil gun. But really its just a fun gun with lower report than my 5.56 AR.

I really feel the 300 bo fills the niche of a pistol caliber carbine in an AR. Oh yeah and it uses all of the standard 5.56 parts minus the barrel so its inexpensive to put together. So if you dont like it just keep going and don't worry. It's just not for you.
jersurf101 is offline  
Old April 10, 2018, 08:10 AM   #33
Bartholomew Roberts
member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
Just looking at my 9” AAC SBR (AR15):

Without suppressor, loaded with subsonics - it is basically an MP5 sized, pistol caliber carbine shooting an expanding bullet with around 400 ft/lbs at the muzzle (i.e. about 100 ft/lbs more energy than a premium 9mm 147gr JHP) Because of the great BC, you can punch paper way past where it would be practical to do so with a pistol caliber. Loud; but quieter than any pistols that produce that kind of energy.

With suppressor, loaded with subsonics - as quiet as an MP5SD and shorter than an M4A1 carbine. Still throwing the same expanding bullets at about 400 ft/lbs.

Without suppressor, supersonic - no flash from a 9” barrel at dusk. Noise noticeably less than 7-10” 5.56. Over 1,000 ft/lbs of energy out to 50yds in a huge selection of bullets (letting you limit penetration to 12” of ballistics gel or dial it up to 21+”). Practical range of 300yds, can lob out to 800yds for plinking. Still in an MP5-sized package.

With suppressor, supersonic - same as above except hearing safe and still shorter than an M4A1 carbine even with the suppressor attached.

And basically, the only thing I need to do to switch between those is swap mags and add/remove a suppressor.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old April 10, 2018, 08:42 AM   #34
9x19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Sherman, TX USA
Posts: 3,750
For me, I decided I could be in the game, or just carp from the bench (how some folks have to complain about others liking something they don't). I really enjoy mine.



__________________
Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
9x19 is offline  
Old April 10, 2018, 09:07 AM   #35
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 4,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by jersurf101
My 16 inch barreled AR is a tack driver with sierra 125s and Lil gun. But really its just a fun gun with lower report than my 5.56 AR.
This is the sort of thing that has me interested.
zukiphile is offline  
Old April 11, 2018, 06:56 PM   #36
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 2,199
Suppressed SBR the same length as a 16in AR, and shoots nice and quiet! It's great for 115yds and in plinking. It's a lot of fun...even used it in a local 3 gun match.
raimius is offline  
Old April 12, 2018, 10:08 AM   #37
HALL,AUSTIN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2011
Location: asheville north carolina
Posts: 556
I built one for weight and length. The finished product, 5.75 pound rifle with an empty magazine and 26.5" long with the stock where i use it. Throwing on a 7.5" faxon barrel and hoping to lower the weight some more and get it under 24" with the stock collapsed. I kind of built mine then found a use for it. As a car gun, it's great. I plan to build a 10.5 or a 9 inch to hunt with. Before I get blasted and shamed I hunt heavy east coast brush, pine forests and occasionally swampy areas. Can't usually see 100 yards, let alone line up a shot that long. Weight and length drew me in, did I mention my 7 year old can shoot it... That's kind of cool too.
HALL,AUSTIN is offline  
Old April 12, 2018, 12:22 PM   #38
ndking1126
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 1,932
The problem (if you want to call it a problem!) is that we have so many cartridges with more bullet weights and velocities than ever before. The amount of overlap is astounding. Anybody can make a fairly legitimate argument that their favorite caliber makes more sense than another caliber. No sense in getting worked up over these things.. keep it all in perspective.

I have a 16" 300 BLK that I shoot 120 grain supers out of. It is, surprisingly, one of most consistent rifles I own (accuracy is good, but not great). I love shooting it.

I bought the rifle wanting a gun to hunt or have fun with at 150 yards or less (There's really only 1 place I can shoot farther than 100 yards, so distance isn't a factor for me.). I also wanted something that hit a little harder than 223, but with essentially the same recoil.

Frankly, 300 BLK with 120 grain supers doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's OK with me. There are plenty of rounds that do everything better, and 7.62x39 does just as well for cheaper.

That's how I use it..
ndking1126 is offline  
Old April 12, 2018, 12:49 PM   #39
Sharkbite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 3,678
Quote:
The Jeep has been a lot of fun, but time to come back to my first hobby.. shooting.
Brother, you can do BOTH. I do
Sharkbite is offline  
Old April 12, 2018, 03:04 PM   #40
ndking1126
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 1,932
Quote:
Brother, you can do BOTH. I do
Too hot and humid to enjoy Jeeps as they were meant to be enjoyed where I live. Maybe one day I'll make it back to CO. My wife already knows if we ever move back, me buying a Jeep is a given, haha.
ndking1126 is offline  
Old April 13, 2018, 06:33 AM   #41
Big Shrek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: NorthWest Florida
Posts: 1,358
Given all the con's of .300BO, it almost seems worse than 10mm...
which IS a flat-shooting pistol round used for hunting out of a 9" barrel.
(G20 with a Lone Wolf 9" threaded barrel)

So that makes me wonder what the statistical comparison of the two would be?
__________________
Marlin Specialist
Calico Specialist
A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.
Big Shrek is offline  
Old April 13, 2018, 07:03 AM   #42
Bartholomew Roberts
member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
The hottest loaded non-specialty 10mm I could find (Buffalo Bore 155gr TAC-XP @ 1500fps) produces 774 ft/lbs at the muzzle, or about 250 ft/lbs less than your normal, everday 110gr .300 load at 50yds.

The 10mm will also bleed off energy faster so that the gap in performance will continue to increase with distance. If you consider 10mm flat shooting, you’ll love .300.

The only manufacturer to create a 10mm load that comes close to .300 is RCBD, who did it by launching a 77gr projectile at 2450fps. So it is about as powerful at the muzzle as .300 110gr is at 50yds.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old April 14, 2018, 04:23 AM   #43
kozak6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,113
For supersonic use, other calibers are significantly cheaper and possibly better.

For subsonic use, I'm not interested because I don't own a suppressor.

It's an interesting cartridge, but it's just not for me.
kozak6 is offline  
Old April 14, 2018, 07:10 AM   #44
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 4,439
Kozak, if you are comparing it to 5.56, I agree. I would welcome a future in which vendors were falling all over themselves to sell me brass cased 300 BO for 30 cents per round, but it isn't here yet.

For reloading though, 300 BO seems to have a flexibility that 5.56 doesn't. I don't reload, but I've had it done for me. The result was so good that it put me off commercially loaded 45acp. It gives one a round perfectly tuned for a specific arm. It's easy to see why people make a hobby of it.

Translating that to 300 BO, the very wide range of bullet and powder combinations could leave a reloader spoiled for choice.
zukiphile is offline  
Old April 14, 2018, 07:11 AM   #45
Mobuck
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,846
"@jeep: there is no barrel length restriction on a pistol AR; all that matters is that the stock/brace is in compliance. The brace issue itself is a pretty nebulous one. "

What about that 26" rule?
Mobuck is offline  
Old April 14, 2018, 10:50 AM   #46
Sharkbite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 3,678
Quote:
For supersonic use, other calibers are significantly cheaper and possibly better.
The other AR calibers all suffer (some significantly) when fired from short barrels. THAT is one of the biggest pluses to the caliber. Chop a 223, 6.5, 6.8, 7.62x39, 450 etc, barrel below ~14” and performance suffers.

The blkout (as the 300whisper) was designed to be fired out of short ~10” barrels. Originally, T/C Contenders and such. Thats why its such a popular SBR and AR pistol caliber.

Take your inefficient 223/556 SBR and just change the barrel to a 300blk one, no other change needed!! Just a barrel swap. No new bolt, mags or anything else.

You now have a 8-11” AR (pistol or SBR) that is ballistically identical to a AK. With low muzzle blast (due to the efficient powder burn).

Is it the ideal big game round? NO. It was never meant to be. Does it take the short barreled AR and bump its power level back into a great SD, LE or Mil CQB rifle? YEP
Sharkbite is offline  
Old April 14, 2018, 01:31 PM   #47
Bartholomew Roberts
member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
Quote:
What about that 26" rule?
That's only for long guns. Pistols do not have to be 26", although most AR pistols aren't going to be much shorter just because of design constraints.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old April 14, 2018, 09:23 PM   #48
Mr.RevolverGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 984
I don't need a reason other than to just enjoy. Not to mention it did a number on this hog http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=5824

Graphic pictures.
__________________
Mr.Revolverguy
http://www.dayattherange.com
Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.
Mr.RevolverGuy is offline  
Old April 19, 2018, 11:27 AM   #49
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 4,439
If one already has an AR in 5.56, what happens if he accidentally inserts a magazine of 300 BO and tries to fire it?

Does it not chamber far enough for the hammer to hit the firing pin? Or is a day ruining event?
zukiphile is offline  
Old April 19, 2018, 11:39 AM   #50
Sharkbite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 3,678
With properly loaded and crimped ammo, it wont chamber fully. The bullet ogive runs into the shoulder of the chamber. Ive attempted to load my reloads into my 223 guns...no go.

There can be an issue if the bullet is not crimped and sets back into the case. Now the round will chamber. Firing a 30cal bullet down a 22cal bore is BAD.

Most guys with both calibers mark their mags and keep em seperate. I dont take both calibers to the range at the same time. IE, if i want to shoot the Blackout, the 223 guns stays home and vice versa. Just pay a little attention to what ammo goes with you and youre good
Sharkbite is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.12203 seconds with 8 queries