WC844 Available Again

Marco Califo · April 11, 2018, 10:58 AM

It has been a long time since I last saw WC844 surplus pull-down powder for sale.
http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html
"WC844 Original application is U.S. 5.56mm NATO (.223 Rem) Ball M193 (55gr) & M855 (62gr), plus Tracer M196 & M856. A double based ball powder which can be loaded using Hodgdon H335 data or Accurate Arms 2230. Also excellent choice for 7.62mm NATO (.308 Win) ammo.
This is pulldown ball powder. $99/8# jug."

Charlie98 · April 11, 2018, 03:29 PM

Figures... I just bought a 8# of H335...

Sure Shot Mc Gee · April 11, 2018, 03:51 PM

Been a awhile since I seen 844 advertised. Might have to look into buying a jug. Thanks for the heads up. S/s

**Unclenick** · April 11, 2018, 04:16 PM

Keep in mind that H335 is WC844, but just in canister rather than bulk grade. The difference is the canister grade has its burn rate more tightly controlled in order to keep load manual data valid. The extra manufacturing steps needed to achieve that tighter burn rate are part of why canister grade power costs more.

A large-scale ammunition maker will have a pressure gun with which to adjust loads for the wider burn rate tolerance of the bulk grade powders, and those adjustments can go outside the load manual data range for the same basic type. That said, the bulk grade burn rate bell curve distribution is centered on the same nominal burn rate the canister grade is, so some bulk lots come out within the canister grade burn rate range randomly. If Jeff Bartlett has tested the performance of the pull-down lot (actually, just measuring the charge weight average in the pull-downs will tell you) to be safe for use with published manual data, you are good to go.

rg1 · April 14, 2018, 03:30 PM

Used to be a much better bargain over H335 but to me not worth the difference today. Every different lot of surplus powder needs to be reworked. Some lots can be slower or faster than H335. Trip to the range and range fees, loading different groups to be tested using primers, powder, and bullets and it's not worth the $30-$40 difference. Do recommend Bartletts GiBrass though.

Stats Shooter · April 14, 2018, 04:20 PM

Seems like buying bulk grade would only be worth it if you are buying a couple full hazmats full (48 lbs each). That way the powder can be fully tested under differing conditions. And the additional cost of components and time needed to get the relative burn rate nailed down is with the few $/lb saved.

On the other hand, if it's 16 lbs or less, I will just buy 2 jugs of H335, compare it to my old loads, and adjust.

**Unclenick** · April 14, 2018, 04:34 PM

Really big purchases mean you have to worry about how old it is and whether or not it will last until you have shot it all.

Marco Califo · April 15, 2018, 01:09 AM

I got a jug of WC844 a couple of years ago, when it was $80 a jug at Wideners. 10 years before that I got a jug of Data 2230C (AA2460). This was another surplus powder in the 223 - 308 realm.
I have used a lot of it, I like it, but do not expect to buy another. Instead I have been adding different powders for specific things like TAC, Varget, CFE223, Silhouette, BE-86.

I think you guys are overthinking the possible lot variances. Once you get it and work up loads, like any other powder, it becomes a non-issue. Worst case would be you dial it back away from published maxes if you have a faster lot. I believe most lots simply fall in the expected range.

Road_Clam · April 15, 2018, 07:42 AM

I contemplate buying kegs of surplus powder from Pats Reloading years ago during the "powder panic". Never knew about Pats, got the tip from my gun club. They also commented you will see some variances from lot to lot. I didn't feel this would be a good decision as i'm still an amateur precision reloader trying to minimize handloading variables, not introduce more. I have a few powders in large quantities such as W748 , Varget, and H4895. I have these in 8# kegs. What I do is after I burn a few lbs. I buy a few new #1 bottles and mix them right in with my current batch. This way if there is a slight variance I will never see it as I maintain a large 10# reserve all mixed together. This seems to work excellent for me for maintaining good stability year round. The W748 powder is a bit fussy with seasonal ambient temps.

Mobuck · April 15, 2018, 07:50 AM

I've loaded several 8# jugs of the WCC844 powder in .223 reloads. Random samples shot over a Chrony produced acceptable numbers and accuracy was as good as Xterminator or H335 canister.

BWM · April 15, 2018, 12:11 PM

I still have about 14lb of A2200 that I got back in the early 2000 for 60.00 for 8lb I got 6 - 8lb at one time sold one of them.

April 11, 2018, 03:29 PM	#2
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	Figures... I just bought a 8# of H335... __________________ _______________ "I have this pistol pointed at your heart!" "That is my least vulnerable spot."

April 11, 2018, 04:16 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Keep in mind that H335 is WC844, but just in canister rather than bulk grade. The difference is the canister grade has its burn rate more tightly controlled in order to keep load manual data valid. The extra manufacturing steps needed to achieve that tighter burn rate are part of why canister grade power costs more. A large-scale ammunition maker will have a pressure gun with which to adjust loads for the wider burn rate tolerance of the bulk grade powders, and those adjustments can go outside the load manual data range for the same basic type. That said, the bulk grade burn rate bell curve distribution is centered on the same nominal burn rate the canister grade is, so some bulk lots come out within the canister grade burn rate range randomly. If Jeff Bartlett has tested the performance of the pull-down lot (actually, just measuring the charge weight average in the pull-downs will tell you) to be safe for use with published manual data, you are good to go. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 14, 2018, 04:34 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Really big purchases mean you have to worry about how old it is and whether or not it will last until you have shot it all. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 15, 2018, 01:09 AM	#8
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	I got a jug of WC844 a couple of years ago, when it was $80 a jug at Wideners. 10 years before that I got a jug of Data 2230C (AA2460). This was another surplus powder in the 223 - 308 realm. I have used a lot of it, I like it, but do not expect to buy another. Instead I have been adding different powders for specific things like TAC, Varget, CFE223, Silhouette, BE-86. I think you guys are overthinking the possible lot variances. Once you get it and work up loads, like any other powder, it becomes a non-issue. Worst case would be you dial it back away from published maxes if you have a faster lot. I believe most lots simply fall in the expected range. __________________ ............ Last edited by Marco Califo; April 15, 2018 at 11:53 AM.

April 15, 2018, 07:42 AM	#9
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	I contemplate buying kegs of surplus powder from Pats Reloading years ago during the "powder panic". Never knew about Pats, got the tip from my gun club. They also commented you will see some variances from lot to lot. I didn't feel this would be a good decision as i'm still an amateur precision reloader trying to minimize handloading variables, not introduce more. I have a few powders in large quantities such as W748 , Varget, and H4895. I have these in 8# kegs. What I do is after I burn a few lbs. I buy a few new #1 bottles and mix them right in with my current batch. This way if there is a slight variance I will never see it as I maintain a large 10# reserve all mixed together. This seems to work excellent for me for maintaining good stability year round. The W748 powder is a bit fussy with seasonal ambient temps. __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

April 11, 2018, 10:58 AM	#1
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	WC844 Available Again It has been a long time since I last saw WC844 surplus pull-down powder for sale. http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html "WC844 Original application is U.S. 5.56mm NATO (.223 Rem) Ball M193 (55gr) & M855 (62gr), plus Tracer M196 & M856. A double based ball powder which can be loaded using Hodgdon H335 data or Accurate Arms 2230. Also excellent choice for 7.62mm NATO (.308 Win) ammo. This is pulldown ball powder. $99/8# jug." __________________ ............

April 11, 2018, 03:51 PM	#3
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Been a awhile since I seen 844 advertised. Might have to look into buying a jug. Thanks for the heads up. S/s

April 14, 2018, 03:30 PM	#5
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	Used to be a much better bargain over H335 but to me not worth the difference today. Every different lot of surplus powder needs to be reworked. Some lots can be slower or faster than H335. Trip to the range and range fees, loading different groups to be tested using primers, powder, and bullets and it's not worth the $30-$40 difference. Do recommend Bartletts GiBrass though.

April 14, 2018, 04:20 PM	#6
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	Seems like buying bulk grade would only be worth it if you are buying a couple full hazmats full (48 lbs each). That way the powder can be fully tested under differing conditions. And the additional cost of components and time needed to get the relative burn rate nailed down is with the few $/lb saved. On the other hand, if it's 16 lbs or less, I will just buy 2 jugs of H335, compare it to my old loads, and adjust.

April 15, 2018, 07:50 AM	#10
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I've loaded several 8# jugs of the WCC844 powder in .223 reloads. Random samples shot over a Chrony produced acceptable numbers and accuracy was as good as Xterminator or H335 canister.

April 15, 2018, 12:11 PM	#11
BWM Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2013 Location: SW IN Posts: 438	I still have about 14lb of A2200 that I got back in the early 2000 for 60.00 for 8lb I got 6 - 8lb at one time sold one of them. __________________ Man that likes guns. Navy. USS Ponchatoula AO 148 USS Vesuvius AE 15