223 for Bolt Action - opinions welcome - Page 2

turtlehead · March 10, 2018, 07:36 AM

My best accuracy has been with Varget, Lake City pick up brass and 50 grain VMax and ZMax. Shooting out to 200 yards.

reinert · March 10, 2018, 12:00 PM

I have an M700 ADL in .223 with a 24" standard barrel with a 1:12 R.O.T. It shoots quite well, and I've been using 60 grn. bullets pretty much exclusively in the rifle. I like Hornady bullets, and have been using their SPs, hollow points, and their V-Max's; all these are 60 grainers, and all shoot well. 25 grains of Varget is what my charge of propellant is for each of these pills. Good stuff. W748 and H335 is also good powder, but right now I like the Varget.

I also really like the 60 grn. Nosler Ballistic Tip "Varmint" bullets. I shot my best 5-shot group at 200 yards using the Noslers and a 25 grn. charge of Varget. That group measured from the two widest shots, center of hole to center of hole, right at 1." I certainly can't do that every time, but the rifle and load is capable enough.

I use Lapua, Winchester, and have used quite a bit of "pick-up" range brass. It all works very well. Reloading rounds for this rifle is just plum easy.

thallub · March 10, 2018, 03:52 PM

i own several .223 bolt actions rifles. Since 1968 i've been using IMR 3031 almost exclusively in my reloads using bullets to 55 grains. Recently started using the 62 grain Triple Shock bullet on hogs: The powder is also IMR 31031.

Yesterday i fired my 26" barrel Remington. 700:

Case: LC007
Bullet: 55 grain Sierra Game King
Powder: 24.5 grains of IMR 3031
Primer: Winchester

After firing three shot groups that measured 3/4" or less i fired a ten shot group that measured just over 1 1/4 inches. Distance was 125 yards.

i seldom reload for my AR-15 rifles.

Scorch · March 10, 2018, 06:42 PM

Everybody has their favorite loads and powders. So do I! But that doesn't mean you will get best accuracy out of someone else's load data. You will just have to flip a coin and do it the old-fashioned way: guess what powder and bullet to use, then shoot the loads. I can tell you that:
- IMR-3031 always did well for me, but is a PITA to load because it is a stick powder.
- Varget always gave me the most consistent velocities and very good accuracy with 50 gr VMax.
- WW748 was always the easiest to load and accuracy is good with 50 to 69 gr bullets.

JeepHammer · March 11, 2018, 01:31 PM

This is more of a reloading question, but the reloading guys hang out here to.

For hyper accuracy, I've not had luck with 1:8" barrels with varmint weight bullets.
Lighter weight bullets often like a slower twist rates.
The .223 family started off as 1:16, 1:14 and so on. I spend more time finding accuracy nodes with faster twist barrels in the 45-55 grain bullet range.

For a very reasonable price varmint bullet, I've been using Hornady Vmax which has really stepped up it's game with these bullets. Remarkably consistent, and the size/weight advertised.

Most of us are aware of Win 748 that is dirty, heat sensitive but will deliver some groups to brag about.
I've switched to Benchmark lately, as good of results a 748 in most rifles, not as hard to clean & not temp sensitive.

As for brass, that's up to you.
Once fired brass is often about your re-processing/preparation as anything.
Starting with Milbrass let's you try different things, learn about preparation without costing you a bunch of money since it's everywhere and cheap.
You can put 10 round groups under a nickel using Milbrass, the brass often isn't the issue when your groups don't tighten up...

One tip is to buy Milbrass that is LC headstamp, 12 or newer (2012), these are most consistent and exactly the same shape/volume as commercial .223 brass (once the primer crimp is removed, a one time operation).

With Benchmark I find accuracy nodes between 25-26.5 grains with 50-55 grain Vmax bullets.
Depending on firearm & primers, usually well under MOA with a reasonable barrel, the ARs with fast twist barrels it usually hovers right at MOA or slightly larger.

I don't know why, but IMR often will show better results when I can't get Benchmark to do MOA in fast twist barrels. When you consider composition, it's against everything written, but it does seem to work when 748 & Benchmark just doesn't quite do it.

Another option might be a slightly heavier bullet.
60-62-65 grains often tighten groups in fast twist barrels when you just can't find an accuracy nodes with 45-55 grain bullets.
Load trials are just that, trials with every combo you can think of until you find the load that particular rifle shoots well...

This is the part that a lot of 'Shooters' hate, they want to shoot, not load, but I find it a puzzle to solve!
Write down EVERYTHING in your load book!
Don't skip anything, some minor process might be the difference.
Change ONE thing at a time, don't make two or three changes at once since you won't know what made a difference...

Hope you find a sweet spot, nothing quite like the feeling when you shoot sub MOA with a handload!

Tallest · March 12, 2018, 09:11 AM

Again... lot of good stuff here. Couple questions, thoughts...

Quote:

This is more of a reloading question, but the reloading guys hang out here to.

This is the "Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting" Forum; where would it have been better to ask?

Quote:

For hyper accuracy, I've not had luck with 1:8" barrels with varmint weight bullets.

I would generally consider varmint bullets for 223 to be in the 35-50 grn weight group. 55 could be, but even though it's a varmint jacket, I think the 60 grn bullets might do pretty well in a 1:8" barrel. I mentioned 55 and 60 in OP.

Quote:

Hope you find a sweet spot, nothing quite like the feeling when you shoot sub MOA with a handload!

Thanks! I know what you mean, and I won't quite until I get there.

Quote:

I also really like the 60 grn. Nosler Ballistic Tip "Varmint" bullets. I shot my best 5-shot group at 200 yards using the Noslers and a 25 grn. charge of Varget. That group measured from the two widest shots, center of hole to center of hole, right at 1." I certainly can't do that every time, but the rifle and load is capable enough.

I am starting to work up a batch of these exact bullets with Varget in Winchester brass. Once the weather is good, we'll see how they do!

Marco Califo · March 12, 2018, 09:47 AM

Varmint bullets (less than 55 grn) would not be expected to be hyper-accurate in a 1:8 twist. You have correctly focused on 55 grn and up. The slower twist (1:12) of older style varmint barrels was appropriate for lighter bullets only. Modern developments of 223 loading have gone much more so to faster twists and heavier bullets
By using a faster barrel like 1:8 or 1:9 (most common now I believe), you can use bullets 50 up to 75 grains. I have used Varmint Grenades in 50 and 36 grn in 1:9 twist and hit steel plates everytime. There is a stability calculator here http://jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgithat that will give you a pretty good idea of what will work or not. I am able to go up to 75 grn in my 1:9 barrel. You should be good to go with 77 SMK too.
The comment about the reloading section is just very odd, because this is the reloading section.

March 10, 2018, 06:42 PM	#29
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Everybody has their favorite loads and powders. So do I! But that doesn't mean you will get best accuracy out of someone else's load data. You will just have to flip a coin and do it the old-fashioned way: guess what powder and bullet to use, then shoot the loads. I can tell you that: - IMR-3031 always did well for me, but is a PITA to load because it is a stick powder. - Varget always gave me the most consistent velocities and very good accuracy with 50 gr VMax. - WW748 was always the easiest to load and accuracy is good with 50 to 69 gr bullets. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

March 11, 2018, 01:31 PM	#30
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	This is more of a reloading question, but the reloading guys hang out here to. For hyper accuracy, I've not had luck with 1:8" barrels with varmint weight bullets. Lighter weight bullets often like a slower twist rates. The .223 family started off as 1:16, 1:14 and so on. I spend more time finding accuracy nodes with faster twist barrels in the 45-55 grain bullet range. For a very reasonable price varmint bullet, I've been using Hornady Vmax which has really stepped up it's game with these bullets. Remarkably consistent, and the size/weight advertised. Most of us are aware of Win 748 that is dirty, heat sensitive but will deliver some groups to brag about. I've switched to Benchmark lately, as good of results a 748 in most rifles, not as hard to clean & not temp sensitive. As for brass, that's up to you. Once fired brass is often about your re-processing/preparation as anything. Starting with Milbrass let's you try different things, learn about preparation without costing you a bunch of money since it's everywhere and cheap. You can put 10 round groups under a nickel using Milbrass, the brass often isn't the issue when your groups don't tighten up... One tip is to buy Milbrass that is LC headstamp, 12 or newer (2012), these are most consistent and exactly the same shape/volume as commercial .223 brass (once the primer crimp is removed, a one time operation). With Benchmark I find accuracy nodes between 25-26.5 grains with 50-55 grain Vmax bullets. Depending on firearm & primers, usually well under MOA with a reasonable barrel, the ARs with fast twist barrels it usually hovers right at MOA or slightly larger. I don't know why, but IMR often will show better results when I can't get Benchmark to do MOA in fast twist barrels. When you consider composition, it's against everything written, but it does seem to work when 748 & Benchmark just doesn't quite do it. Another option might be a slightly heavier bullet. 60-62-65 grains often tighten groups in fast twist barrels when you just can't find an accuracy nodes with 45-55 grain bullets. Load trials are just that, trials with every combo you can think of until you find the load that particular rifle shoots well... This is the part that a lot of 'Shooters' hate, they want to shoot, not load, but I find it a puzzle to solve! Write down EVERYTHING in your load book! Don't skip anything, some minor process might be the difference. Change ONE thing at a time, don't make two or three changes at once since you won't know what made a difference... Hope you find a sweet spot, nothing quite like the feeling when you shoot sub MOA with a handload! Last edited by JeepHammer; March 11, 2018 at 05:39 PM.

March 12, 2018, 09:47 AM	#32
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	Varmint bullets (less than 55 grn) would not be expected to be hyper-accurate in a 1:8 twist. You have correctly focused on 55 grn and up. The slower twist (1:12) of older style varmint barrels was appropriate for lighter bullets only. Modern developments of 223 loading have gone much more so to faster twists and heavier bullets By using a faster barrel like 1:8 or 1:9 (most common now I believe), you can use bullets 50 up to 75 grains. I have used Varmint Grenades in 50 and 36 grn in 1:9 twist and hit steel plates everytime. There is a stability calculator here http://jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgithat that will give you a pretty good idea of what will work or not. I am able to go up to 75 grn in my 1:9 barrel. You should be good to go with 77 SMK too. The comment about the reloading section is just very odd, because this is the reloading section. __________________ ............

March 10, 2018, 07:36 AM	#26
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	My best accuracy has been with Varget, Lake City pick up brass and 50 grain VMax and ZMax. Shooting out to 200 yards.

March 10, 2018, 12:00 PM	#27
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	I have an M700 ADL in .223 with a 24" standard barrel with a 1:12 R.O.T. It shoots quite well, and I've been using 60 grn. bullets pretty much exclusively in the rifle. I like Hornady bullets, and have been using their SPs, hollow points, and their V-Max's; all these are 60 grainers, and all shoot well. 25 grains of Varget is what my charge of propellant is for each of these pills. Good stuff. W748 and H335 is also good powder, but right now I like the Varget. I also really like the 60 grn. Nosler Ballistic Tip "Varmint" bullets. I shot my best 5-shot group at 200 yards using the Noslers and a 25 grn. charge of Varget. That group measured from the two widest shots, center of hole to center of hole, right at 1." I certainly can't do that every time, but the rifle and load is capable enough. I use Lapua, Winchester, and have used quite a bit of "pick-up" range brass. It all works very well. Reloading rounds for this rifle is just plum easy.

March 10, 2018, 03:52 PM	#28
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	i own several .223 bolt actions rifles. Since 1968 i've been using IMR 3031 almost exclusively in my reloads using bullets to 55 grains. Recently started using the 62 grain Triple Shock bullet on hogs: The powder is also IMR 31031. Yesterday i fired my 26" barrel Remington. 700: Case: LC007 Bullet: 55 grain Sierra Game King Powder: 24.5 grains of IMR 3031 Primer: Winchester After firing three shot groups that measured 3/4" or less i fired a ten shot group that measured just over 1 1/4 inches. Distance was 125 yards. i seldom reload for my AR-15 rifles.