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Old August 9, 2018, 12:49 PM   #1
simonrichter
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comeback of SMGs in the US Army?

Does anybody have further insights about the request for proposals for a new SMG that the Army has issued (and recently withdrawn). I'd be especially curious why they seem to want to go back to a simple 9mm and ignore the PDW-type platforms that were said to be the future not so long ago.

I don't know anything other than that the whole program is somewhat connected with equipping personal protection detachments...
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Old August 10, 2018, 10:57 PM   #2
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The military floats a lot of trial balloons, calling them "request for proposals" and other things. Most of them don't amount to anything.

Essentially its their way of saying "we're considering something, any one out there make it, or be willing to make it for us?"

Doesn't mean they are actually planning to do the thing, only that they are considering it as a possibility.
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Old August 11, 2018, 02:53 PM   #3
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I think they just want a new toy to play with.
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Old August 12, 2018, 08:13 AM   #4
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The MP-5 in .40 or 10mm would fit the bill nicely imo.
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Old August 12, 2018, 11:21 AM   #5
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But why not a 5.56 subcarbine or a 5.7 PDW? 9mm is kind of ineffective against body armor and barriers...
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Old August 12, 2018, 12:04 PM   #6
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But why not a 5.56 subcarbine or a 5.7 PDW? 9mm is kind of ineffective against body armor and barriers...
This could be the argument in favor of the 9mm. For a "protection detail" weapon. Remember that the purpose of the detail is not to take down all possible attackers (great when they can, and do, but not the main point), but to ensure the safety of their primary. Hold off the attack and get the primary away to safety is the mission, not take out the attackers.

And, choosing a weapon that probably won't go through the body armor that your team members and the primary are (hopefully) wearing does make some sense.

Remember that it doesn't have to be the best possible thing, it just has to be able to do the intended job, under the worst foreseeable conditions. Also having the primary struck and maybe killed by a stray round from one of his bodyguards is considered bad for business...
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Old August 13, 2018, 01:57 PM   #7
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Probably somebody trying to make a name for themselves, advance their career. The military is always resurrecting things from years gone by, rediscovering old concepts and passing them off as something new.
If they were to adopt a new SMG wouldn't it make sense to have it use the same magazines as the M9 ? Naah, that's too logical.
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Old August 16, 2018, 06:46 AM   #8
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Sounds like a good time to introduce the fn 5.7 or 300 blk as thats what these cartridges were designed for and offer real performance upgrades over the legacy pistol calibers.

On the other hand it doesn't seem like the future military weapon systems will use brass cased ammunition if you believe news reports on the replacement of the SAW and the m4.
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Old August 16, 2018, 07:34 PM   #9
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The U.S. Military had been playing with ways to get rid of brass cases for decades now, from case-less (glued powder and ball) to innumerable different types of plastic or other synthetic materials. So far nothing the holds up to field conditions better than brass.
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Old August 16, 2018, 09:21 PM   #10
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The MP-5 in .40 or 10mm would fit the bill nicely imo.
I do not believe the MP-5 is in production any more. The FBI tried them in 10mm, they shot great, but I don't think they held up well.
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Old August 29, 2018, 07:23 PM   #11
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SMGs are tier one gear.


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Old August 30, 2018, 05:16 PM   #12
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The MP-5 in .40 or 10mm would fit the bill nicely imo.
I'd vote for a full-auto KRISS in 10mm. That would make a heck of a full-auto carbine or SBR.
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Old August 31, 2018, 02:27 PM   #13
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"...Most of them don't amount to anything..." Yep. There are a lot of Colonels and LT Colonels who need to be kept busy.
"...a 5.56 subcarbine..." That's what an M4 is.
"...9mm is kind of ineffective against body armor..." So is any other pistol cartridge. And it depends on the armour. Barriers don't matter. The 5.56NATO doesn't penetrate those either. Not what small arms are for anyway.
"...do not believe the MP-5 is in production..." HK still makes 'em over 100 variants.
"...playing with ways to get rid of brass cases..." Done by HK long ago.
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Old August 31, 2018, 02:36 PM   #14
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The MP-5 in 9MM is as close to perfection as current technology will allow.
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Old August 31, 2018, 02:40 PM   #15
Don Dayacetah
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The FN PDW system is lightweight, and the P90 is fairly compact.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Army used it for non-infantry personnel.
Not that they actually will.
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