drawing technique.

coyotewsm · May 1, 2015, 01:38 AM

What is the proper way to draw from an iwb holster?

**Frank Ettin** · May 1, 2015, 03:39 AM

I'm not sure if you're asking about drawing from concealment or from a "tuck" type IWB holster with the shirt tucked in over the holster. Let's look at the basic presentation from a holster worn at the waist on the dominant side. It works the same for an IWB and an OWB holster.

You want to achieve a full firing grip before withdrawing the pistol from the holster. You should not have to shift your grip. Throughout the draw stroke, until you are actually going to fire the gun, the trigger finger stays off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame.   
While the strong hand is moving to grip the pistol, the weak hand is placed flat on the abdomen near the same level as the grip of the pistol. This helps assure that the weak hand isn't swept by the muzzle and also puts the weak hand in position to take grip the pistol over the strong hand.  
The pistol is withdrawn straight upwards from the holster, and the muzzle is rotated toward the target after it clears the holster. If using 1911, Browning High Power, or some other gun with a safety engaged, the safety may be disengaged here, but the trigger finger remains off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame.  
When the muzzle is rotated toward the target the strong hand is at about the level of the strong side pectoral muscle and the strong hand is held at or touching the side with the muzzle pointed to the threat. If the threat is very close, within a few yards, the gun may be fired from this position. This is called the retention position.   
At the retention position, the weak hand comes up to assume its part of the grip. The two hands then together extend the gun either fully up to shooting position or partially at a downward angle to the low ready position, depending on the circumstances.  
The gun is holstered by following those steps in reverse. I have been taught to follow these steps whenever removing my gun from, or placing my gun in, the holster.  
I've also been taught to begin moving my strong hand to the gun from about my belt buckle. The thing is that if I'm carrying my gun concealed I will need to displace my covering garment to gain access to the gun. If I sweep my strong from approximately mid line I automatically sweep aside my covering garment.  Two key words here: smooth and control.

The goal is to do this smoothly. If one concentrates on being smooth and practice over and over again, he will get fast. Speed comes from smoothness and no wasted motion. And one must be in control at all times. At lot is going on, and a misstep on the presentation can be devastating. But by being smooth you retain control, and by being smooth you become fast. And by being smooth and in control you will be accurate.  

That's the draw I learned at Gunsite, and it's a pretty standard technique. Here's that five count draw, as taught at Gunsite, being demonstrated by Charlie McNeese, one of the Range Masters (senior instructors) at Gunsite Academy.

Here another well respected instructor, Rob Pincus, does it just a little different.

Here competitive shooter Max Michel is demonstrating the presentation. He's using competition gear, but the technique is essentially the same.

TxWheels · May 1, 2015, 04:59 AM

Lets' make this simple.

Find the way that is most comfortable and easy for you to clear clothing out of your way and then grip the gun and get it to firing position.

And NO, drawing from competition gear is NOT the same as drawing from an everyday carry holster.

Mobuck · May 1, 2015, 06:12 AM

This is basically how it works for me but I don't use IWB very often:
Non-shooting hand reaches around and yanks shirt up.
Shooting hand slides over grip with thumb extending next to skin to lift the pistol out of the holster.
Fingers wrap around grip as palm settles on backstrap.
Trigger finger and thumb fall into position as the pistol clears the holster.

I'm using a "super-tuck" type holster to carry a Ruger SP 101 3" and have the gun sitting pretty low inside the waistband. Too low to get my fingers around the grip while still in the holster-quickly anyway.

**4V50 Gary** · May 2, 2015, 09:23 AM

Practice for smoothness. Never mind speed. Be smooth first and speed will follow later. With retention holsters, I recommend practicing the draw at least 1,000 times.

Also practice one and two handed draws. The second or non-dominant hand is for support. However, in very close quarters where you are trying to fend off an assailant, the non-dominant hand may not be available. Hence the necessity for practicing with one hand.

BTW, I used to train my guys to draw with the non dominant hand (in case the dominant hand was injured/disabled).

Sharkbite · May 2, 2015, 12:36 PM

The 5 count presentation as taught at Gunsite, Front Sight and other schools is just as Frank describes.

Here is the short version as i gave it to students as a reminder during classes

1. Grip
2. Clear
3. Rotate
4. Hands together
5. Extend

There are a bunch of fine points in each of those steps to optimize the "stroke". Things like in count 3, the gun should be chest high and level. Ideally, there should be a small outboard cant to the pistol as well. This will aid in the slide not hitting your body or clothing should you need to fire in this position.

I think the best way to learn a proper "draw stroke" is under an experienced instructor. There are too many things going on that have to be done correctly in order to learn SAFELY and efficiently. Most of the unintentionall gunshot injuries ive seen have occurred during either the draw or during re-holstering

Not a subject to be taken lightly.

coyotewsm · May 2, 2015, 03:03 PM

Thanks for the info.

WVsig · May 5, 2015, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxWheels

Lets' make this simple.

Find the way that is most comfortable and easy for you to clear clothing out of your way and then grip the gun and get it to firing position.

And NO, drawing from competition gear is NOT the same as drawing from an everyday carry holster.

This is bad advice. A 5 step draw or a variation of it is the way to go. The position of the holster may change on a carry rig vs a competition rig but the concept and the technique is the same.

dyl · May 6, 2015, 04:25 PM

I might agree that a competition draw can be different than carry draw... Depending on the competition holster and what arena of competition. Practical shooting sports and their rigs should mimic carry draws but I have seen some very skeletonized competition rigs that would not require full upwards stroke upon drawing. But this is a moot point as I doubt there are any specialized competition IWB holsters.

TxWheels · May 6, 2015, 05:32 PM

QUOTE: Originally Posted by TxWheels
Lets' make this simple.

Find the way that is most comfortable and easy for you to clear clothing out of your way and then grip the gun and get it to firing position.

And NO, drawing from competition gear is NOT the same as drawing from an everyday carry holster.
This is bad advice. A 5 step draw or a variation of it is the way to go. The position of the holster may change on a carry rig vs a competition rig but the concept and the technique is the same.

QUOTE: This is bad advice. A 5 step draw or a variation of it is the way to go. The position of the holster may change on a carry rig vs a competition rig but the concept and the technique is the same.

Well golly gee. I'm sorry but I'm not one of those internet experts like apparently are.

WVsig · May 6, 2015, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Well golly gee. I'm sorry but I'm not one of those internet experts like apparently are.

I am not an expert but believe you are giving poor advice and am willing to say so. It is not about comfort and ease of clearing your cover garment. It is about doing that safely and in a manner that will allow you to get into the fight as quickly and safely as possible.

Many people do not find it comfortable to put their off hand on their chest but not doing so can result in shooting your own hand off. This is one of the reasons why people shooting competition and shooting to defend themselves use a 5 step or variation of the five step draw.

This is not about you vs me and who is the expert. It is about giving and getting good safe advice about how to handle guns. IMHO YMMV

**Frank Ettin** · May 6, 2015, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxWheels

Find the way that is most comfortable and easy for you to clear clothing out of your way and then grip the gun and get it to firing position....

Comfort generally has nothing to do with it. Many physical acts are initially somewhat uncomfortable when first learning to do them correctly. Good training, good practice, and good conditioning can result in doing something right becoming comfortable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxWheels

...And NO, drawing from competition gear is NOT the same as drawing from an everyday carry holster....

And that is not a true statement. In competition I have used competition gear, and in training I have used my normal carry gear. I draw in essentially the same way in either case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxWheels

...I'm sorry but I'm not one of those internet experts like apparently are.

Not you, nor I, nor anyone else can proclaim himself an expert. You, I and anyone else are experts only when others recognize us as such. I don't think you have to worry about anyone calling you an expert -- at least regarding this issue.

In the videos I've linked to in post 2 we've seen how some recognized expert instructors teach drawing a gun from an ordinary service holster.

5thShock · May 8, 2015, 09:09 AM

"... not doing so can result in shooting your own hand off."

Did people shoot their hands off before this technique began to be taught?

pax · May 8, 2015, 09:47 AM

Yes.

Many of the lessons taught at gun schools were lessons written in the blood of good people who were teaching themselves what to do, figuring it out on their own because 'how hard could it be?'

The most common place that people shoot themselves is either in the right leg or the left hand. That would be because many right-handed shooters have no idea how to safely draw the gun, safely reholster it, or safely handle the firearm without getting their left hand in front of the muzzle. As an instructor, I spend a lot of my time pointing these things out to good people who honestly don't realize what they have just done dangerously. People put their hands in front of the freaking muzzle all the time without realizing it. When someone else points it out, they are bewildered, and grateful.

The injuries from shooting a hand range from mild -- a simple through and through of the meat -- to lifelong crippling. "Degloving" is such a wonderfully descriptive word...

pax

pax · May 8, 2015, 10:07 AM

Should add: left handed shooters shoot themselves in the left leg or right hand. But only around 5% of shooters shoot lefty, so those injuries are much less common. (Roughly 12% of people are lefties, but more than half of those choose to shoot right handed for various reasons.)

Also see https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress....lf-by-accident

Or Google keywords: shot myself in hand holster
Or: shot myself in leg holster
Or: shot myself handgun

pax

5thShock · May 8, 2015, 10:40 AM

Thank you. I am so glad I read this thread. To others reading this, make sure the click the link pax gave us. You may not like it but it'll do you good.

May 1, 2015, 01:38 AM	#1
coyotewsm Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2014 Posts: 242	drawing technique. What is the proper way to draw from an iwb holster?

May 1, 2015, 03:39 AM	#2
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	I'm not sure if you're asking about drawing from concealment or from a "tuck" type IWB holster with the shirt tucked in over the holster. Let's look at the basic presentation from a holster worn at the waist on the dominant side. It works the same for an IWB and an OWB holster. You want to achieve a full firing grip before withdrawing the pistol from the holster. You should not have to shift your grip. Throughout the draw stroke, until you are actually going to fire the gun, the trigger finger stays off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame.    While the strong hand is moving to grip the pistol, the weak hand is placed flat on the abdomen near the same level as the grip of the pistol. This helps assure that the weak hand isn't swept by the muzzle and also puts the weak hand in position to take grip the pistol over the strong hand.   The pistol is withdrawn straight upwards from the holster, and the muzzle is rotated toward the target after it clears the holster. If using 1911, Browning High Power, or some other gun with a safety engaged, the safety may be disengaged here, but the trigger finger remains off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame.   When the muzzle is rotated toward the target the strong hand is at about the level of the strong side pectoral muscle and the strong hand is held at or touching the side with the muzzle pointed to the threat. If the threat is very close, within a few yards, the gun may be fired from this position. This is called the retention position.    At the retention position, the weak hand comes up to assume its part of the grip. The two hands then together extend the gun either fully up to shooting position or partially at a downward angle to the low ready position, depending on the circumstances.   The gun is holstered by following those steps in reverse. I have been taught to follow these steps whenever removing my gun from, or placing my gun in, the holster.   I've also been taught to begin moving my strong hand to the gun from about my belt buckle. The thing is that if I'm carrying my gun concealed I will need to displace my covering garment to gain access to the gun. If I sweep my strong from approximately mid line I automatically sweep aside my covering garment.  Two key words here: smooth and control. The goal is to do this smoothly. If one concentrates on being smooth and practice over and over again, he will get fast. Speed comes from smoothness and no wasted motion. And one must be in control at all times. At lot is going on, and a misstep on the presentation can be devastating. But by being smooth you retain control, and by being smooth you become fast. And by being smooth and in control you will be accurate.   That's the draw I learned at Gunsite, and it's a pretty standard technique. Here's that five count draw, as taught at Gunsite, being demonstrated by Charlie McNeese, one of the Range Masters (senior instructors) at Gunsite Academy. Here another well respected instructor, Rob Pincus, does it just a little different. Here competitive shooter Max Michel is demonstrating the presentation. He's using competition gear, but the technique is essentially the same. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

May 1, 2015, 04:59 AM	#3
TxWheels Member Join Date: April 13, 2015 Location: North Texas Posts: 34	Lets' make this simple. Find the way that is most comfortable and easy for you to clear clothing out of your way and then grip the gun and get it to firing position. And NO, drawing from competition gear is NOT the same as drawing from an everyday carry holster. __________________ If I don't answer the phone, I'm probably in the Senate taking a POTUS and wiping my Congress.

May 2, 2015, 09:23 AM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Practice for smoothness. Never mind speed. Be smooth first and speed will follow later. With retention holsters, I recommend practicing the draw at least 1,000 times. Also practice one and two handed draws. The second or non-dominant hand is for support. However, in very close quarters where you are trying to fend off an assailant, the non-dominant hand may not be available. Hence the necessity for practicing with one hand. BTW, I used to train my guys to draw with the non dominant hand (in case the dominant hand was injured/disabled). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

May 2, 2015, 12:36 PM	#6
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	The 5 count presentation as taught at Gunsite, Front Sight and other schools is just as Frank describes. Here is the short version as i gave it to students as a reminder during classes 1. Grip 2. Clear 3. Rotate 4. Hands together 5. Extend There are a bunch of fine points in each of those steps to optimize the "stroke". Things like in count 3, the gun should be chest high and level. Ideally, there should be a small outboard cant to the pistol as well. This will aid in the slide not hitting your body or clothing should you need to fire in this position. I think the best way to learn a proper "draw stroke" is under an experienced instructor. There are too many things going on that have to be done correctly in order to learn SAFELY and efficiently. Most of the unintentionall gunshot injuries ive seen have occurred during either the draw or during re-holstering Not a subject to be taken lightly. Last edited by Sharkbite; May 2, 2015 at 06:58 PM.

May 1, 2015, 06:12 AM	#4
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	This is basically how it works for me but I don't use IWB very often: Non-shooting hand reaches around and yanks shirt up. Shooting hand slides over grip with thumb extending next to skin to lift the pistol out of the holster. Fingers wrap around grip as palm settles on backstrap. Trigger finger and thumb fall into position as the pistol clears the holster. I'm using a "super-tuck" type holster to carry a Ruger SP 101 3" and have the gun sitting pretty low inside the waistband. Too low to get my fingers around the grip while still in the holster-quickly anyway.

May 2, 2015, 03:03 PM	#7
coyotewsm Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2014 Posts: 242	Thanks for the info.

May 6, 2015, 04:25 PM	#9
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	I might agree that a competition draw can be different than carry draw... Depending on the competition holster and what arena of competition. Practical shooting sports and their rigs should mimic carry draws but I have seen some very skeletonized competition rigs that would not require full upwards stroke upon drawing. But this is a moot point as I doubt there are any specialized competition IWB holsters.

May 6, 2015, 05:32 PM	#10
TxWheels Member Join Date: April 13, 2015 Location: North Texas Posts: 34	QUOTE: Originally Posted by TxWheels Lets' make this simple. Find the way that is most comfortable and easy for you to clear clothing out of your way and then grip the gun and get it to firing position. And NO, drawing from competition gear is NOT the same as drawing from an everyday carry holster. This is bad advice. A 5 step draw or a variation of it is the way to go. The position of the holster may change on a carry rig vs a competition rig but the concept and the technique is the same. QUOTE: This is bad advice. A 5 step draw or a variation of it is the way to go. The position of the holster may change on a carry rig vs a competition rig but the concept and the technique is the same. Well golly gee. I'm sorry but I'm not one of those internet experts like apparently are. __________________ If I don't answer the phone, I'm probably in the Senate taking a POTUS and wiping my Congress.

May 8, 2015, 09:09 AM	#13
5thShock Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2006 Posts: 400	"... not doing so can result in shooting your own hand off." Did people shoot their hands off before this technique began to be taught?

May 8, 2015, 09:47 AM	#14
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Yes. Many of the lessons taught at gun schools were lessons written in the blood of good people who were teaching themselves what to do, figuring it out on their own because 'how hard could it be?' The most common place that people shoot themselves is either in the right leg or the left hand. That would be because many right-handed shooters have no idea how to safely draw the gun, safely reholster it, or safely handle the firearm without getting their left hand in front of the muzzle. As an instructor, I spend a lot of my time pointing these things out to good people who honestly don't realize what they have just done dangerously. People put their hands in front of the freaking muzzle all the time without realizing it. When someone else points it out, they are bewildered, and grateful. The injuries from shooting a hand range from mild -- a simple through and through of the meat -- to lifelong crippling. "Degloving" is such a wonderfully descriptive word... pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

May 8, 2015, 10:07 AM	#15
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Should add: left handed shooters shoot themselves in the left leg or right hand. But only around 5% of shooters shoot lefty, so those injuries are much less common. (Roughly 12% of people are lefties, but more than half of those choose to shoot right handed for various reasons.) Also see https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress....lf-by-accident Or Google keywords: shot myself in hand holster Or: shot myself in leg holster Or: shot myself handgun pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

May 8, 2015, 10:40 AM	#16
5thShock Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2006 Posts: 400	Thank you. I am so glad I read this thread. To others reading this, make sure the click the link pax gave us. You may not like it but it'll do you good.