Proper Mounting Techniques.... - Page 2

Dave McC · January 21, 2001, 09:55 AM

And again, since some folks asked...

Dave McC · May 20, 2001, 10:08 AM

Bringing this back up for Nightcrawler...

po boy · May 20, 2001, 12:43 PM

Dave Mc
proper mounting involves supporting at least half your
weight on your elbows!!!

Dave McC · May 22, 2001, 12:34 PM

Heard you the first time, po' boy(G).

po boy · May 23, 2001, 08:06 AM

sorry Mac
I didn't look at page one and the year old date one track sick mind SORRY!!!!

Dave McC · December 3, 2001, 04:06 PM

Back up for CMichael....

CMichael · December 3, 2001, 08:26 PM

Thank you Dave

Michael

Will Beararms · December 4, 2001, 11:28 PM

This may not be in line with conventional wisdom but I have found that as long as I naturally point and shoot on instinct with no attention to form, birds die.

It's when I start looking as stances in books, listening to others or getting on the web to look at the latest method that the birds keep flying.

I think everyone is different. Do what kills birds as long as it safe. If you keep missing, change your technique until you get it right.

I keep both eyes open and just wisk the shotgun up to my shoulder from the ready position and nature takes over after that.
It's like driving a car. If you thought about every movement, you would not get put of the driveway.

Dave McC · December 5, 2001, 04:48 AM

WIll, from your postings I gather you have shot a good amount. Whatever you do works for you. Here we're talking about tyros. Best to start them like this, and groove the form in until it's "instinctive".

And, I too can point and shoot like the Almighty smiting wiht a lightning bolt, but it took a while to get there.

Will Beararms · December 5, 2001, 07:12 AM

Here Here

youngun · December 5, 2001, 09:14 PM

So, then, it seems like a well-fitted shotgun is really key.
I never put much thought into it, but is there perhaps a book/website on how-to?
Or is it worth whatever they charge to have a pro tailor you?

oyunugnu

Dave McC · December 6, 2001, 06:31 AM

Good fit is essential, Youngun. The Brits have this down to a science, using 1/32" increments, and lots of them shoot very, very well. I'm not sure we have to go to those lengths. Here's a rough and goodenough guide.

Different parameters apply for "Serious" and the myriad forms of recreational shotgunning. I'm going for a GP fit here. Do this with a weapon KNOWN TO BE EMPTY, for obvious reasons.

First, forget that stuff about if the butt is in your elbow and your trigger finger reaches the trigger. Like most myths, it's true sometimes.If you're 5'9", 160 lbs with a 33" shirt sleeve, it's probably true.

Mount the shotgun and hold your position. If there's room for two or three fingers between your nose and the base of your strong side thumb, the length is close.If not, adjust it and try a few fast mounts to make sure.

Next, focus on a fixed point, like where the ceiling and two walls meet in the corner of the room. Close your eyes, and mount the shotgun. Open your eyes. If the shotgun is pointed precisely where you were focussed, it fits. If not, make it so.

One of the nice thing about repeaters over doubles and singles is that most can be adjusted very well by shimming between the receiver and stock. People use toothpicks, pieces of old hulls, cut up credit cards, or my favorite because it's infinitely adjustable, folded aluminum foil. If the pattern's low, add a shim at the bottom of the receiver,etc.

Next, focus on the point again and see if you're lokking right down the bbl. On a GP shotgun, you should be "Flat" down the rib, not seeing much if any rib, just the bead(s). If there's two beads, they should be superposed, or stacked in a figure 8. If you do see some rib, it may shoot a bit high for you. I like them this way. Some don't.

Now, set up your patterning board. Use a 4'X4' piece of paper with an aiming point in the center. Using your ammo of choice, take a few shots and see where the major impact area is. If it's centered or a bit high, Huzzah! You're almost done.

Next, put up a new piece of paper and using a fast mount/fire, see if the POI changes. If so, move things around until you're centered.

For "Serious" use,or for use in cold conditions, the stock's better off if it's a bit short, rather than long. Otherwise, you're all set.

Finally, if this is not helpful, seek the help of a good fitter. Some folks just can't do this themselves, tho most can.

HTH....

Jager1 · December 6, 2001, 11:21 AM

Ledbetter,

Quote:

Finally, I have suggested to my wife that we go shooting on several occaisions. To date, she appears to prefer that we have sex.

It's guys like you that give credibility to the old saying:

"Sometimes you just have to leave things alone."

ATTICUS · December 6, 2001, 12:23 PM

Well at least he now knows the proper mounting technique.

youngun · December 6, 2001, 11:18 PM

Well, as regards:

-Length at midpoint, heel and toe (this covers the pitch measurement too),
-Drop at comb and heel,
-Cast at comb, heel, and toe

And Dave's:
Good fit is essential, Youngun. The Brits have this down to a science, using 1/32" increments, and lots of them shoot very, very well. I'm not sure we have to go to those lengths.

...I guess my Q is how critical is a superfit.
I guess the point is simply to be able to hit what your aiming at, and practice enough to do it consistently.

I like the idea of a tailored stock, but I wonder how much better off I would be. (or my wife, even more importantly.)

y

Dave McC · December 7, 2001, 06:10 AM

My opinion on fit is it's critical for a tyro, very important for everyone else. A recent article on Dan Carlisle mentions him coaching a class of sporting shooters,and using ALL their guns,hitting with ALL of them, despite greatly varying stocks.

But Carlisle raises performance to near magical levels.

A really good shot can do OK with a somewhat off spec stock, but never reach his/her potential. A tyro will have a harder time hitting with a badly fitting stock, become discouraged, get hit harder with recoil, and may not progress and/or quit altogether.

The good news,if the stock is the correct length, drop and equipped with a good pad, all it takes to hit is good form. A fecally cognizant instructor is priceless at this point. So are light loads.

HTH....

Dave McC · December 19, 2001, 01:39 PM

Up for CMichael....

Dave McC · July 15, 2002, 05:52 AM

Back up for KT....

Dave McC · August 30, 2002, 08:04 PM

And up for various New folks....

I gotta clean up my files, a search yielded 98 PAGES of shotgun stuff I've posted on this BB!

Oi vay is mer...

Jorah Lavin · August 31, 2002, 09:51 AM

...suggestion?

Quote:

Right now, you're standing facing the target with the shotgun loaded, safety on. Your feet are roughly shoulder width apart, and you advance your support(the foot on the same side as the hand that supports,rather than fires, the weapon) side foot about a foot or so.

I had to learn to point myself where the target WILL BE, when getting ready to shoot clays. In other words, I started with a sort of generic point forward position, then I realized that if I know that the clay will be riiiiiiiight there, then I'd best prepare myself with that in mind, rather than try to adjust later.

Naturally, this only works if the clays are being sent time and again in the same arc, which is the case on the automatic machine at my range. The hand-operated machine (spring driven) might send the target any old place.

My thanks to you for the original post. I suspect that I'm not getting my strong-arm elbow up high enough, which is what is causing the butt to be high on my shoulder. My wife told me that the butt is more than half way above my shoulder when I fire.

I'll try "chicken winging" it a bit more.

-Jorah

December 4, 2001, 11:28 PM	#33
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	This may not be in line with conventional wisdom but I have found that as long as I naturally point and shoot on instinct with no attention to form, birds die. It's when I start looking as stances in books, listening to others or getting on the web to look at the latest method that the birds keep flying. I think everyone is different. Do what kills birds as long as it safe. If you keep missing, change your technique until you get it right. I keep both eyes open and just wisk the shotgun up to my shoulder from the ready position and nature takes over after that. It's like driving a car. If you thought about every movement, you would not get put of the driveway. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

December 5, 2001, 07:12 AM	#35
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Here Here __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

December 5, 2001, 09:14 PM	#36
youngun Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 324	So, then, it seems like a well-fitted shotgun is really key. I never put much thought into it, but is there perhaps a book/website on how-to? Or is it worth whatever they charge to have a pro tailor you? oyunugnu __________________ New firing pin: $12. New extractor: $15. Ballistic fingerprinting: worthless.

December 6, 2001, 12:23 PM	#39
ATTICUS Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,100	Well at least he now knows the proper mounting technique. __________________ Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

December 6, 2001, 11:18 PM	#40
youngun Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 324	fit Well, as regards: -Length at midpoint, heel and toe (this covers the pitch measurement too), -Drop at comb and heel, -Cast at comb, heel, and toe And Dave's: Good fit is essential, Youngun. The Brits have this down to a science, using 1/32" increments, and lots of them shoot very, very well. I'm not sure we have to go to those lengths. ...I guess my Q is how critical is a superfit. I guess the point is simply to be able to hit what your aiming at, and practice enough to do it consistently. I like the idea of a tailored stock, but I wonder how much better off I would be. (or my wife, even more importantly.) y __________________ New firing pin: $12. New extractor: $15. Ballistic fingerprinting: worthless.

January 21, 2001, 09:55 AM	#26
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	And again, since some folks asked...

May 20, 2001, 10:08 AM	#27
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Bringing this back up for Nightcrawler...

May 20, 2001, 12:43 PM	#28
po boy Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2000 Posts: 145	Dave Mc proper mounting involves supporting at least half your weight on your elbows!!!

May 22, 2001, 12:34 PM	#29
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Heard you the first time, po' boy(G).

May 23, 2001, 08:06 AM	#30
po boy Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2000 Posts: 145	sorry Mac I didn't look at page one and the year old date one track sick mind SORRY!!!!

December 3, 2001, 04:06 PM	#31
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Back up for CMichael....

December 3, 2001, 08:26 PM	#32
CMichael Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2001 Location: MI Posts: 1,516	Thank you Dave Michael

December 5, 2001, 04:48 AM	#34
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	WIll, from your postings I gather you have shot a good amount. Whatever you do works for you. Here we're talking about tyros. Best to start them like this, and groove the form in until it's "instinctive". And, I too can point and shoot like the Almighty smiting wiht a lightning bolt, but it took a while to get there.

December 6, 2001, 06:31 AM	#37
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Good fit is essential, Youngun. The Brits have this down to a science, using 1/32" increments, and lots of them shoot very, very well. I'm not sure we have to go to those lengths. Here's a rough and goodenough guide. Different parameters apply for "Serious" and the myriad forms of recreational shotgunning. I'm going for a GP fit here. Do this with a weapon KNOWN TO BE EMPTY, for obvious reasons. First, forget that stuff about if the butt is in your elbow and your trigger finger reaches the trigger. Like most myths, it's true sometimes.If you're 5'9", 160 lbs with a 33" shirt sleeve, it's probably true. Mount the shotgun and hold your position. If there's room for two or three fingers between your nose and the base of your strong side thumb, the length is close.If not, adjust it and try a few fast mounts to make sure. Next, focus on a fixed point, like where the ceiling and two walls meet in the corner of the room. Close your eyes, and mount the shotgun. Open your eyes. If the shotgun is pointed precisely where you were focussed, it fits. If not, make it so. One of the nice thing about repeaters over doubles and singles is that most can be adjusted very well by shimming between the receiver and stock. People use toothpicks, pieces of old hulls, cut up credit cards, or my favorite because it's infinitely adjustable, folded aluminum foil. If the pattern's low, add a shim at the bottom of the receiver,etc. Next, focus on the point again and see if you're lokking right down the bbl. On a GP shotgun, you should be "Flat" down the rib, not seeing much if any rib, just the bead(s). If there's two beads, they should be superposed, or stacked in a figure 8. If you do see some rib, it may shoot a bit high for you. I like them this way. Some don't. Now, set up your patterning board. Use a 4'X4' piece of paper with an aiming point in the center. Using your ammo of choice, take a few shots and see where the major impact area is. If it's centered or a bit high, Huzzah! You're almost done. Next, put up a new piece of paper and using a fast mount/fire, see if the POI changes. If so, move things around until you're centered. For "Serious" use,or for use in cold conditions, the stock's better off if it's a bit short, rather than long. Otherwise, you're all set. Finally, if this is not helpful, seek the help of a good fitter. Some folks just can't do this themselves, tho most can. HTH....

December 7, 2001, 06:10 AM	#41
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	My opinion on fit is it's critical for a tyro, very important for everyone else. A recent article on Dan Carlisle mentions him coaching a class of sporting shooters,and using ALL their guns,hitting with ALL of them, despite greatly varying stocks. But Carlisle raises performance to near magical levels. A really good shot can do OK with a somewhat off spec stock, but never reach his/her potential. A tyro will have a harder time hitting with a badly fitting stock, become discouraged, get hit harder with recoil, and may not progress and/or quit altogether. The good news,if the stock is the correct length, drop and equipped with a good pad, all it takes to hit is good form. A fecally cognizant instructor is priceless at this point. So are light loads. HTH....

December 19, 2001, 01:39 PM	#42
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Up for CMichael....

July 15, 2002, 05:52 AM	#43
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Back up for KT....

August 30, 2002, 08:04 PM	#44
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	And up for various New folks.... I gotta clean up my files, a search yielded 98 PAGES of shotgun stuff I've posted on this BB! Oi vay is mer...