The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 30, 2017, 12:57 PM   #1
3Crows
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2017
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 220
Straight Wall States Hunting

I read more and more on this as a growing thing in some states. Do such states allow lever guns or only primitive type or single shot? If single shot only can one put a plug in the magazine to limit to one round?
3Crows is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 01:09 PM   #2
zoomie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: GA
Posts: 1,861
Levers are generally ok. Pumps, bolts, and autos, too. I don't know every state's laws, but I don't know of one that requires single shot straight wall.
zoomie is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 01:33 PM   #3
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
Appears to be a thing that's going away more than growing.
Lotta hunting regs are made by people who really have no idea what they're talking about. Hunting regs are daft everywhere though. There are areas up here where .275 calibre, by the cartridge name, is the max allowed. A few that say .270, also by the cartridge name. So a .270 Win is ok, despite the .277" bullet, but a .276 Petersen(that used a .284" bullet) is not.
However, most jurisdictions will have a rifle season, a bows only, muzzleloaders only and sometimes a handgun season. Plus they take local firearms ordinances and if you're on private or public land into consideration. And how long the cartridge is and the bullet diameter.
All of it varying considerably between jurisdictions. So it's not so much the firearm as it is the cartridge and where you hunt.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 02:11 PM   #4
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 2,736
Actually, it's growing. A number of states with primitive weapons seasons such as muzzle loading seasons, are now allowing certain rifle cartridges to be used in those same seasons. There's a growing interest in the mid-west for those types of cartridges. Some states are making lists of approved cartridges and some are dictating cartridges based on diameter and length which is leading to some creativity with cartridges like the 45-70 being shortened to meet the criteria. Hunter numbers are dropping in some states and the deer herds are increasing. Those states are looking to do two things: get more hunters in the field and control the deer herds.
NoSecondBest is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 03:41 PM   #5
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 10,792
Quote:
Appears to be a thing that's going away more than growing.
What?

Many states (or parts of states) have banned center fire rifles for years requiring muzzle loader or shotguns only for big game hunting. Within the last few years some of them, and the number is growing, are now allowing centerfire rifles with some restrictions. Basically they are trying to limit the range stray shots can travel.

The laws vary and have evolved over time. Initially most were only allowing straight walled pistol calibers fired from handguns or rifles. Such as 357, 44 mag and 45 Colt. Lever action rifles are popular in those states.

It is really a mixed bag and it seems to change each year. In some places a semi-auto 44 mag would be legal, but not in others.

The definition of a primitive weaopn varies by state too. In Mississippi any single shot in 35 caliber or larger is considered primitive. Some guys are using single shots in 35 Whelen with modern optics.

It is a complicated mess. I understand the concern in heavily populated regions. But a 44 or 357 mag can easily travel far enough to do as much damage as a 30-06 or 270. A girl was killed several years ago in Ohio by a stray muzzle loader shot from over a mile away. So much for those guns being safer.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amish-m...-days-in-jail/
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 05:59 PM   #6
3Crows
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2017
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 220
Thanks for the info guys. I was just wondering. Will need to do some more research. Does not affect my state, yet and my favorite cartridge, 45-70, is going to be over length I imagine if it does.
3Crows is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 06:51 PM   #7
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
T.O., I Am right curious where such (.270 by Cartridge Name) is the case ....do tell!
jimbob86 is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 07:05 PM   #8
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
Quote:
Hunting regs are daft everywhere though.
I disagree: Regs hereabouts are made 2 ways: with input from public hearings held around the state and by Law passed by the Legislature, mostly from input from non-hunting folks ....hunting people tend to go to the public hearings .... non-hunting interests tend to own the Legislature ..... goofy stuff comes from the latter....
jimbob86 is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 07:17 PM   #9
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
In Ms for the first primitive weapons season it's a single shot external hammer breech loader in .35 caliber and larger. Smokeless powder and modern optics are legal .35 Whelen and 45-70 are kings. For the last two primitive weapons seasons it's weapon of choice as long as it's legal during regular gun season, so if you want to use your bolt action 30-06 or your 5.56 AR 15 with a 30 round mag you're free to do so.
Hawg is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 07:36 PM   #10
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
Quote:
Appears to be a thing that's going away more than growing.What?
I know Indiana allows real rifles (bottlenecked centerfires that most folks think of as "deer rifles" - .243, 30/30, 270WIN, Aught-Six, etc.) now ....changed in 2016 ....

That's not everywhere .... but it's a statewide win......
jimbob86 is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 08:40 PM   #11
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
 
Join Date: October 15, 2016
Posts: 64
This was the first year Iowa allowed certain center fire rifles during the regular gun seasons. Strait wall cartridges only, basically anything from 357 mag to 45-70 Govt.
Lever, semi auto, bolt guns all legal. Handguns have been legal for quite a few years with the same cartridge restrictions.
I read somewhere that Iowa was one of 16 maybe 18 states with similar laws.
Fine Figure of a Man is offline  
Old December 30, 2017, 09:40 PM   #12
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
D.Poacher ... not definitive proof, but another data point pointing toward more permissive laws as opposed to more restrictive ones .....

..... what statewide laws (let's not get lost in the weeds with the local noise ordinances of East Bug Tussle Township, OH or Pirate Parish, LA's local Gator inch quotas- Statewide stuff) are getting more restrictive?
jimbob86 is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 01:16 AM   #13
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,876
Not happening in MN. Highly doubt it ever will due to the shortage of deer in the Northern half of the State. i.e. Grey wolf over population and predication of this States deer herd beyond the expectations of everyone governmental. But~~~those who reside in that part of the State experience the nasty animal and know the bumbling behaviour of this States DNR and those fake politicians in Washington DCs too.

Being a Muzzle Loader hunter I like the idea of keeping the current Law (muzzle Loaders only) as is.

If the use of Straight Wall cartridge guns during Muzzle Loaders season becomes Law. I know those using such breech loading firearms have a big advantage over those who aren't. Such straight wall shooter individuals should be ineligible for modern cartridge deer season. Yesiree!! "Horning in on another sportsman's preferred deer season needs to have consequences."
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 02:31 AM   #14
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
Quote:
f the use of Straight Wall cartridge guns during Muzzle Loaders season becomes Law. I know those using such breech loading firearms have a big advantage over those who aren't. Such straight wall shooter individuals should be ineligible for modern cartridge deer season. Yesiree!! "Horning in on another sportsman's preferred deer season needs to have consequences."
Agreed..... when deer are in short supply, "Rule-Beaters" need their B-Hinds beaten ..... I hate in-lines ..... that ain't what they made the season for .... marketing and the Chamber of Commerce and the Insurance Lobby drove that .....
jimbob86 is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 02:39 AM   #15
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
Muzzle loaders are Muzzle loaders ..... breech loaders are breech loaders: stop gerrymandering stuff to appease whoever...... words mean stuff, be honest in every sense of the word: mean what you say and say what you mean ...
jimbob86 is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 12:15 PM   #16
3Crows
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2017
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 220
Well, in truth, I would wish for just "deer season" without the divisions. Maybe duck season for slingshots and then another for boomerangs? I am all in for less regulation and total freedom to hunt as ethical and honorable sportsmen and women.

I do not know about this deer shortage but the white tailed woods rats are killing my trees, stomping my garden, ate all my apples and are over running the place not to mention the one that summersaulted over my windshield after taking out a minivan. I am going to convert a few of them in my backyard to venison next year and I feel a whole lot better using non-bottleneck cartridge in the now built up area I live in. I would use my bow but too likely to run off on to another property, not good there.

What do I mean by that, well, a .308 has a crack that echos for miles and a bullet that potentially travels nearly as far and my 45-70 loaded at transsonic or subsonic velocity just makes a low kaboom and at less that 100 yards whatever it hits usually falls over dead.

But, that said, again, I am for just one season, if I had a vote, one long season, choose your hunting weapon as you wish and as suits the local environment. And if we could trust our fellow sportsmen to make good choices we would not need some of the regulations. But I figure we will have world peace long before some of the yahoos I see in the woods learn civility and sportsmanship and honor.

I had a college roommate for a little bit, an odd fellow, much older than me. Had been in Vietnam. His preferred hunting method was to climb into a tree and then wait for a deer to walk under. He would then jump down on it and slit it's throat. Not sure how he learned that method but should there be a specific season for hand to hand combat knife only hunters? Just kidding.

I think we have gotten off track from my initial inquiry. From my OP:

I read more and more on this as a growing thing in some states. Do such states allow lever guns or only primitive type or single shot?

Last edited by 3Crows; December 31, 2017 at 12:23 PM.
3Crows is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 12:46 PM   #17
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
"...do tell!..." Hi. There are some counties in Southern Ontario(it's not all of it like some people, up here, think) where it is illegal to hunt small game and some where you can't hunt anything with a rifle chambered in any cartridge larger than .275. Most of those are Northwest of TO.
And some counties, mostly neighbours of Toronto, where they specifically say .270. Durham Region, literally directly north of TO, is one of 'em.
It is rumoured that the .275 laws came about just after W.W. I to keep returning service men from using surplused Lee-Enfields. The .270 number was put in place by unelected civil servants who didn't know what they were talking about.
The 'by the cartridge name' part is about the .270 Win and .270 Weatherby Mag being ok, but a .276 Petersen(that isn't .27 calibre anyway and is just an example.) is not.
"...45-70, is going to be over length..." Depends on the State, but the .45-70 is usually mentioned as ok, by name. Indiana says max case length of 3" in a "high powered rifle". .45-70's is 2.105". They also say it applies to private land only. And you can only have 10 rounds on your person when hunting. Daft laws.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 12:59 PM   #18
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
I don't see the 10 round thing as "daft".... It would discourage wanna be Rambos from hosing down the woods ..... The idea is to humanely kill a deer, not lay down suppressive fire ....... If ya can't get it done in 10 rounds, 20 more won't help ...... And the rest of us will be that much less likely to get hit by a stray bullet.
jimbob86 is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 01:02 PM   #19
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,486
How will a .270 minimum bar a .303?
Or is it .270 ONLY?
Jim Watson is online now  
Old December 31, 2017, 02:01 PM   #20
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
Quote:
I had a college roommate for a little bit, an odd fellow, much older than me. Had been in Vietnam. His preferred hunting method was to climb into a tree and then wait for a deer to walk under. He would then jump down on it and slit it's throat. Not sure how he learned that method but should there be a specific season for hand to hand combat knife only hunters? Just kidding.
In Missouri and Alabama atlatl's are legal.
Hawg is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 11:16 PM   #21
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,685
Pretty sure this is derailed. But remember hunters who are only for their way and hate all other methods hinder us as a group. The DNR, State Wildlife group, Ministry of Conservation... regulate the seasons and the numbers.

I applaud muzzleloader hunters who use percussion or flint locks but I'll be using my inline (mostly because the surrounding counties I hunt locally only allow shotguns or muzzleloaders for the regular season). But I wouldln't mind one of those Pedersoli double barrels and trying my hand at pheasant hunting. There's a group here that uses them on turkeys and a clays league.

I'm also a bowhunter and I don't care if fellow hunters use Atlatl's, Recurves, Compound or Crossbows. I congratulate them for getting out and hopefully bagging a deer. Or go Fred Bear/Ben Pearson style and shoot some ducks on the fly.

Singleshot to semi auto all have their place. Is a hunter using an AR10 in 308 carrying a 30 round magazine all that bad if they down a deer in one shot with 29 still in the magazine? I use a bolt gun and load 5. If i'm packing in somewhere the other 15 will be in my pack because who knows what will happen.

I may have bought 6 tag between the two states I hunt this year but I stopped after tagging a 6 point because I only needed 1 deer. But if I knew a family who needed meat I could have filled more and helped them out.

Can't we be happy that we have a tradition we share?
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member
Blindstitch is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 11:27 PM   #22
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,685
3Crows I would suggest if you think your area might turn into a straight wall cartridge area that you pick up a rifle chambered in what you think is the most accepted because if it happens to an area those rifles will be hard to find for some time.

Michigan had a solid shotgun zone (the bottom 1/3rd of the state) for quite some time but now cut that area in 1/3rd as a trial place to use straight wall cartridges and maybe someday bottlenecks again.

Wisconsin had an even bigger shotgun zone and after analyzing stats they found not that many people were getting shot and lifted it. But now we're plagued by towns, cities, townships and other zones that wrote rules when it was a shotgunzone saying the only rifles that could be used are .17 or .22 rimfire. Most of these say they have coyote problems but nobody wants to come in and shoot them with a 22.
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member
Blindstitch is offline  
Old January 2, 2018, 10:18 AM   #23
the possum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2004
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 555
Blindstitch, I find myself mostly in agreement with your sentiments. This thread displays part of the reason why we have restrictive & wacky hunting laws in many places. Our fellow sportsmen can be our own worst enemies. As long as the animal is taken humanely, I don't care how ya do it. We should all be eager to welcome new hunters to the fold regardless of the tool they prefer to use.
the possum is offline  
Old January 2, 2018, 11:51 AM   #24
3Crows
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2017
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 220
I asked about the straight wall hunting, I did not say that I am fond of the idea or other similar regulations. I would prefer a single long season in which a hunter can hunt with whatever weapon he/she desires.

But that is not reality, some hunters do not want to be in the woods with other hunters with long range capable rifles who as in another current thread use scopes to glass their targets for ID. And I think it is understandable even if misguided that townships or built up areas might wish to attempt to regulate potential range.
3Crows is offline  
Old January 2, 2018, 01:26 PM   #25
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 2,736
3Crows,
JFYI, I use a single shot straight wall case rifle here in NY where I can use any rifle cartridge I choose. I personally like straight walled cases in single shot rifles regardless of what else I could use. I've been shooting these type of guns for several years now. My favorite are the .357mag, .357max, and the 45-70 (which you can shorten down easily to make length requirements in several states...and not give up performance). To date, I've never lost even one deer, have shot many, and never needed a second shot to get the job done. All three of those cartridges are good deer cartridges and very, very accurate in my guns....just something to think about.
NoSecondBest is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10093 seconds with 8 queries