Identify Pistol and Bayonet

sydneyswan · February 6, 2009, 03:38 AM

Can someone help me identify this pistol and bayonet.

sydneyswan · February 6, 2009, 03:42 AM

Bayonet

Hawg · February 6, 2009, 05:15 AM

The pistol is a center hammer screw barrel derringer also commonly called a muff pistol because ladies carried them in those fur thingies called muffs they used to keep their hands warm

sydneyswan · February 6, 2009, 05:24 AM

but how old do you think it is?

Radagast · February 6, 2009, 06:38 AM

Probably from the 1830s to the 1860s. It appears to be a percussion gun, they were going the way of the dodo by 1870 when cartridge firearms became common.

If you are based in Sydney be aware that you do need a license under NSW law to possess that antique as it is considered just as dangerous by our idiot politicians as the modern semi autos in my safe.

These guys would be a good source of information, including how to get it licensed and registered.
http://www.antiquearmssociety.org.au/AboutUs.htm

**Mike Irwin** · February 6, 2009, 10:08 AM

My guess is that your bayonet is a Martini Henry socket bayonet, but it's very difficult to tell given that you don't give an overall picture of the bayonet and the scabbard.

sydneyswan · February 6, 2009, 04:31 PM

Thanks for the information Radagast, however I live in SA, where the firearm laws aren't as strict. Mike Irwin, I have now attached a photo of the bayonet and its scabbard.

Radagast · February 6, 2009, 05:18 PM

The bayonet appears to be an 1852 Enfield bayonet.
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...s/bayonets.htm

My area of knowledge is handguns, not sharp pointy things, so I may be wrong.
Asking at the military surplus forums at www.gunboards.com or http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearm...firearmsforums may yield better answers, plenty of hardcore collectors on both forums.

dahermit · February 6, 2009, 06:14 PM

Jumping Jersey sydneyswan, take three steps back from the subject you are trying to photograph!

sydneyswan · February 6, 2009, 10:48 PM

Thanks Radagast. It sounds like it is an 1852 Enfield bayonet, but i recieved it with a snider rifle (made 1874 and used by the Queensland black mounted police), which was given to me by my grandfather,but he was not sure if the bayonet belonged to that particular rifle. I wonder if the 1891 scribed on the scabbard would be the year of its manufacture or just a serial number?

**Mike Irwin** · February 7, 2009, 01:07 AM

No such thing as an 1852 bayonet.

It would be the Model 1853.

But...

Positive identification between the 1853, the 1876, and the 1895 socket bayonets is best done by measuring the length of the blade and the inside diameter of the socket.

If I had to hazard a guess, though, I would say the Model 1876.

It looks to have condition issues, including missing parts, and a badly compromised scabbard. Value isn't all that great in that condition.

The socket bayonets of that time frame would have fit the earlier Enfield Rifled Muskets, the Enfiend Snider Conversion Rifles, the Martini Henrys, and the early Lee Metfords.

Jezz · June 24, 2009, 06:20 AM

Looks very similar to the type of pistol used in the Mcray, Mackillop-sub clan
conflict. However im not sure if you could verify this as most of the Mackillop's were wiped out and little is known about the Mcrays after the conflict. (Apologies on any misspelling of names)

Jezz

February 6, 2009, 05:24 AM	#4
sydneyswan Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2009 Posts: 8	Thanks Hawg Haggen but how old do you think it is?

February 6, 2009, 05:15 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The pistol is a center hammer screw barrel derringer also commonly called a muff pistol because ladies carried them in those fur thingies called muffs they used to keep their hands warm

February 6, 2009, 06:38 AM	#5
Radagast Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2001 Posts: 449	Probably from the 1830s to the 1860s. It appears to be a percussion gun, they were going the way of the dodo by 1870 when cartridge firearms became common. If you are based in Sydney be aware that you do need a license under NSW law to possess that antique as it is considered just as dangerous by our idiot politicians as the modern semi autos in my safe. These guys would be a good source of information, including how to get it licensed and registered. http://www.antiquearmssociety.org.au/AboutUs.htm

February 6, 2009, 10:08 AM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	My guess is that your bayonet is a Martini Henry socket bayonet, but it's very difficult to tell given that you don't give an overall picture of the bayonet and the scabbard.

February 6, 2009, 05:18 PM	#8
Radagast Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2001 Posts: 449	The bayonet appears to be an 1852 Enfield bayonet. http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...s/bayonets.htm My area of knowledge is handguns, not sharp pointy things, so I may be wrong. Asking at the military surplus forums at www.gunboards.com or http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearm...firearmsforums may yield better answers, plenty of hardcore collectors on both forums.

February 6, 2009, 06:14 PM	#9
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Jumping Jersey sydneyswan, take three steps back from the subject you are trying to photograph!

February 6, 2009, 10:48 PM	#10
sydneyswan Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2009 Posts: 8	Thanks Radagast. It sounds like it is an 1852 Enfield bayonet, but i recieved it with a snider rifle (made 1874 and used by the Queensland black mounted police), which was given to me by my grandfather,but he was not sure if the bayonet belonged to that particular rifle. I wonder if the 1891 scribed on the scabbard would be the year of its manufacture or just a serial number?

February 7, 2009, 01:07 AM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	No such thing as an 1852 bayonet. It would be the Model 1853. But... Positive identification between the 1853, the 1876, and the 1895 socket bayonets is best done by measuring the length of the blade and the inside diameter of the socket. If I had to hazard a guess, though, I would say the Model 1876. It looks to have condition issues, including missing parts, and a badly compromised scabbard. Value isn't all that great in that condition. The socket bayonets of that time frame would have fit the earlier Enfield Rifled Muskets, the Enfiend Snider Conversion Rifles, the Martini Henrys, and the early Lee Metfords.

June 24, 2009, 06:20 AM	#12
Jezz Member Join Date: June 3, 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 72	Looks very similar to the type of pistol used in the Mcray, Mackillop-sub clan conflict. However im not sure if you could verify this as most of the Mackillop's were wiped out and little is known about the Mcrays after the conflict. (Apologies on any misspelling of names) Jezz