Daughter Flinching

[Mycin]

I agree that it sounds like she started out on too much gun for her experience level.

I suggest lots of dry fire practice, then lots of .22 ammo down range.

Don't try to have her feel the "wall" and all that -- just squeeze the trigger until it goes "bang". Less to think about. Also, the "bang" should be a surprise, not something she anticipates.

I like your idea of breaking things up. Drill on proper grip, ignoring trigger technique and sight alignment. Then drill on sight alignment, ignoring grip and trigger. Then drill on trigger, ignoring the other two. Then put two of them together, mix-and-match. Then drill the whole package. Do this dry-fire as much and as often as her attention span will tolerate. Once she seems to have it down, go through it again with a 22, live fire. After a few dozen rounds, if she's doing good, move up to the Glock 19. Only introduce the Hellcat after she's comfortable with the G19.

When (not if, when) it starts to fall apart, start over with dry-fire, focusing on whatever part she's struggling with.

[Mycin]

One other thing I should have mentioned. The most important ingredient:

Patience. Lots and lots of patience, from both you and your daughter. If you get easily frustrated, you're probably not the right person to be training her. If not, but she does, you need to do all you can to reduce the pressure she puts on herself. Explain the process and that it's going to take time and work.

[Recycled bullet]

Hello Nathan. I suggest that your daughter read this thread, that she can pick and choose from it however it suits her in her journey of pistol shooting.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by Nathan

My daughter is working on her shooting to move towards her CCW license. She has shot 22 rifles and AR’s in the past and done ok. Those are hard to CCW.

So, without my guidance, she bought a Springfield Hellcat. She liked the longer mags for a better grip and shorter mags for carry.

It has a decent, but probably 6.5lb trigger.

When she shoots, she either stokes the trigger too fast or too slow. This combines with some weird grip loosening which causes the front sight to drop like 2 foot POI shift at 7 yards.

Oddly, my 45 auto 1911’s trigger allowed her to hit a paper plate, but it looked like she was going to drop the gun.

Essentially as she squeezes better, her grip loosens to limp grip levels….like almost dropping gun in recoil.

Anybody see this? Tips?

She needs to be Convinced - that the firearm is not hurting her - it's hurting the target.

Like a loud barking dog... her dog... protecting her.

Get that into her head, and the rest is just dry-fire practice with a penny behind the front sight.




Red

[5whiskey]

So hitting very low USUALLY isn't from relaxing the grip. It's USUALLY from anticipating recoil.*

I think you have been given several fine suggestions. I'll offer something else. Once she has practiced dry fire with dime drills, and can keep the dime from falling often enough, take her out for live fire. YOU load her magazine, mixing in a few dummy rounds at random as you load it. Then video her as she shoots. This does two things... it allows you to study what is happening repeatedly with video review, AND it allows her to see her own mistakes.

Others have said that Dad sometimes just can't be the best teacher for certain things because he is Dad. I have experienced that with all of my kids, at least with varying activities, over the years. That being said, my young'ins knew to listen to me on certain things. Swinging a baseball bat, hitting the ball, and shooting were among them.

*it's much more common to squeeze even harder when anticipating recoil, but I'm not going to challenge your observations because I obviously wasn't there.

[Pumpkin]

Lots of practice with a Ruger Standard Model Mk 2,3,4 or a Buckmark should let her walk before she tries to run.

[Erno86]

Nathan,

Some shooters make the mistake of "dipping" the pistol due to "anticipation of recoil". "Everybody dips occasionally, it's just a matter of how much." A tip I learned from a famous Army match pistol shooter: You lock both your wrists down at a 45-degree angle...so much that you can't flip down the pistol with your wrists anymore due to anticipation of recoil. Try slightly unlocking your elbows in the Isosceles stance.

Dropping the shoulders at the time of the shot is another dipping mistake.

With a centerfire or rimfire rifle...I also try to lock my support hand wrist down at a 45-degree angle on the forearm to control recoil better during a rapid-fire sequence, with my thumb pointed towards the target.

"Follow through with the trigger press," and "Treat your trigger finger as its own entity."

[Erno86]

This NRA article is very informative about controlling anticipation of recoil:

"The Zen of Shooting - by Paul Schoch"

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...n-of-shooting/

[4V50 Gary]

I don't like semi-automatic pistols for training young folk. Trigger pull is SA and it's easy to go too fast and waste ammo. I prefer a DA revolver and have them learn to use it only in the DA mode. Slow and steady.

[Erno86]

If someone is unfamiliar with a pistol, they should first get acquainted with the trigger by bench-resting it for the first 10 shots.

[stuckinthe60s]

ever wonder why early blackpowder pirate type pistols had such straight grips?
now you know.
also too, you now know why guns like high standard and lugers have slanted grips.
its pretty hard to bend your wrist 45deg....on a 1911 or similar design.

old saa pistols are a good design to practice that idea since you can choke up on the grip to achieve it.

[Nathan]

From American Rifleman

Some interesting info.

Worked with daughter #2 and the TX22. Had some good success.

[RC20]

Lots of advice but the one to get on board is your daughter.

I had a niece that wanted me to teach her to ride motorcycles. I would not do it. She actually is a seriously talented driver. In her case, way to aggressive and puts herself into situation where if it does not go perfectly, bad news. Fantastic reflexes.

While its my view in this case that counted, she did not belong on a cycle in my view.

Your daughter has jumped into the deep end and the release the grip behavior is dangerous in gun handling.

Maybe she should not be shooting a pistol or maybe she should be getting instruction from someone other than you.

There is an equating of rifle shooting just naturally means acceptable pistol shooting, that may not be true in her case. Some people simply are not suited to some things.

Someone independent should be brought in and or send her to. It might best be a woman (I have seen some great female instructors). But it has to be someone she can both respect and listen to.

Your daughter needs to be assessed. She may not be trainable. Not a character problem, just not all of us are suited to pistols (or rifles or....)

I avoided being a brain surgeon, all the training in the world would not make me one. I don't like hospitals and that aversion alone would be enough.

Unfortunately we start from a gun end of things when we should start with, should this person be shooting at all and if so, are there types they should not be?

If you want self defense there is a taser or bear spray that does not have a pistol involved.

[Nathan]

@RC20….thank you for the time you spent crafting your post

I must be misunderstanding it. I’m not sure the recipe to success in anything is try it once and then give up. We don’t live our lives that way.

Training with an instructor is always an option.

[totaldla]

IMO, she's just scared of the gun. I don't blame her as tiny 9mm pistols are a handful. Examine the grip texture, maybe a little skateboard tape, or a grip sleeve will make the gun feel more secure. Let her have some fun with a big old chunk of steel 1911, or any full-size pistol, to build confidence. Really pay attention to the support hand in the grip as it really, really matters (did I say really enough?).

I taught my 3 daughters, granddaughter, and daughter-in-law how to shoot handguns, so by internet standards I'm an expert

As others mentioned, we worked through a progression of pistols starting with a 22lr. The gun they all loved to shoot is a 1997 Kimber Classic (45acp). The gun they wanted to love was a Glock 19, because they had seen it on TV. The absolute last guns I ever let them try were a pair of micro pistols - only one daughter was ever able to really run a PF9 well.

I found the "balance a nickel on the slide trick" very helpful towards mastering the Glock trigger. And proper grip becomes important with a 9mm Glock, much, much more so when you scale down to the Hellcat/Sig 365.

I reload, so there was lots of ammo and I toned it down a smidge to moderate the "buck and roar". If I were teaching with 9mm micro pistols, I would likely run 147gr @750-800'ish (3" barrel) as I've found the heavier fodder to be softer shooting.

I used 8" steel plate targets as the "ping" is satisfying.

I'm pretty chill with instruction. I don't show off (much). I'm anal on safety. I'm not in a rush. We have a good time.

I've got a bunch of grandsons, the oldest is 16, competitive and can whip my butt in timed runs. Sucks to get old

The only female in my clan who never graduated above a 22lr is my wife

[ammo.crafter]

How old is your daughter and approx height and weight?

My daughter was and remains petit yet handles a 1911 and her O/U 12ga easily. Lots of practice to establish muscle memory.

Your daughter should be aware of the trigger pull dynamics and know exactly when the primer will be struck.