A rant.

[dahermit]

I went out and shot 100 rounds of .45 ACP in my XSE Colt Combat Commander today. It is part of the last 200 rounds I had that is lubed with NRA 50/50 Alox. I decided to take the gun down and clean it inasmuch as that NRA lube always leaves the gun full of oily sludge.

Sure enough, having to dork with the series 80 firing pin lock, I managed to lose the firing pin and spring when it shot from its orifice. After a half hour of fruitless and frustrating search I ordered a replacement series 80 firing pin and spring from Numrich Gun Parts. I found the lost firing pin and spring fifteen minutes after sending the order in. GRRRR!

Which brings me to my rant. I hate that series 80 modification inasmuch as being a pain in the orifice, that "improvement" seems to define logic. Or, as my older brother would say, "An ingenious solution to a non-existent problem."

I have often considered that at least three things would have to happen in order for a person to be struck by a bullet from a dropped 1911. Firstly, it would have to be high enough when dropped... as I remember the testing, 1911's would start to fire when dropped from 4 feet. The only time my 1911 is at the four foot height, is when it is extended in front of me being held in firing position with both hands. In short, I am very unlikely to drop it at that time. Secondly, it must drop directedly on the muzzle... a very unlikely happening unless performed on purpose. Thirdly, if it were dropped directly on its muzzle the bullet would have to perform a ricochet in the exact direction of the shooter in order to strike a vital organ. In sum, all three variables would have to be in effect in order to be a serious threat and what are the chances of that?

[Geezerbiker]

I think you nailed it... Can you by pass that system or swap out the slide?

Spare parts are never a bad idea. Just be sure to put them where you can find them when you need them. I bought a spare spring for my Savage .22 semiauto 15 or so years ago and I'm clueless where it is now that I need it...

Tony

[dahermit]

Can you by pass that system or swap out the slide?

Yes... I have a Series eighty cut on my Blued .38 Combat Commander slide that does not have that little lock installed. It functions fine. However, in a very short few years I will be gone (I am old) and that gun will have to be sold and lacking all the parts may be a negative to a prospective buyer. I know that because of past posts on the same subject. There are people who think the firing pin lock is a good idea or at least an improvement.

[44 AMP]

Since this is in General Discussion, we should probably also include the safeties that have been added to various guns (particularly lever actions) that were never part of the original designs.

Part of the issue is the attitude of the era about safety. Somewhere along the way in the past century the attitude that mechanical devices have to be made as safe as physically possible under any and all conditions became dominant.

Probably because you cannot make people safer by a law or regulation...

The original 1911 design is not 100% drop safe. Nothing of that era, before or for many years after is or was. In relative terms, the 1911 system is one of the most drop (or other accidental discharge) safe made before the current modern era. Quite superior in many ways to all its contemporaries, even some DA revolvers of that era.

But, being about 99% safe wasn't good enough for some people, particularly the State of California. When they created their safety standards pistols that failed their drop test criteria were not going to be allowed to be sold in CA.

The firing pln block system was designed and put into Colt govt models, specifically so they could pass CA's rather arbitrary test, allowing the pistol to be sold in California.

Note that the US military, who used the 1911and 1911A1 from 1911 through the early 1980s and KNEW it was not 100% drop safe, never requested any changes to the pistol to prevent a "perfect storm" of several different conditions needing to happen at the same time resulting in an AD.

But this wasn't good enough for the CA govt, and other places have to an extent, followed their lead.

Hundreds of years of history with thousands of gun designs, every one knew if you dropped a loaded gun there was a chance it would go off.

Today, some places have laws requiring guns to be made so this does not happen, or is so unlikely to happen as to be insignificant.

NONE of my 1911 pattern guns have the firing pin block system and none I ever pay to own, will. I find it an unnecessary a unneeded complication to a mechanism that works perfectly well without it.

[rock185]

I don't have a rant, but do have 1911 type pistols with and without firing pin safeties. I am comfortable with both, but not offended by the presence of a firing pin safety. Colt reportedly developed the Series 80 guns with FPS due to increasing misuse and mishandling of their pistols, leading to more lawsuits against Colt. The Series 80 guns reached the market in 1983, long before some state's more recent regulations. And actually, Colt had incorporated a FPS on commercial guns prior to WWII. Then WWII started, and the prewar FPS was never incorporated into military contract guns due to the necessity to ramp up production of standard 1911A1s, without adopting this new feature. While still in police work, I was a Colt O-Frame armorer. I never saw an unmolested Series 80 FPS component cause an issue. Owners did sometimes create problems for themselves by monkeying with FPS equipped guns, without really knowing what they were doing. This usually involved attempting to lighten S80 triggers, even though trigger pull weight specs did not change between the Series 70 and Series 80 guns. And FWIW, trigger pulls down to 3 1/2# have been achieved in Series 80 Colt pistols, with all stock Series 80 FPS components intact.....ymmv

[Kevin Rohrer]

The series-80 guns are a solution in-search of a problem. I own one, and that is because it was built for me before I understood what a kludge the firing pin block is.

[kenny53]

When I see a model 80 series on a 1911 I move on. That's all I have to say on the subject.

[Scorch]

I own 5 1911s, all are series 70 type. Won't own a series 80. And I sell enough of the series 80 safety delete plates to people that I think I am not alone in disliking them.

[dahermit]

Originally Posted by rock185

I don't have a rant, but do have 1911 type pistols with and without firing pin safeties. I am comfortable with both, but not offended by the presence of a firing pin safety. Colt reportedly developed the Series 80 guns with FPS due to increasing misuse and mishandling of their pistols, leading to more lawsuits against Colt. The Series 80 guns reached the market in 1983, long before some state's more recent regulations. And actually, Colt had incorporated a FPS on commercial guns prior to WWII. Then WWII started, and the prewar FPS was never incorporated into military contract guns due to the necessity to ramp up production of standard 1911A1s, without adopting this new feature. While still in police work, I was a Colt O-Frame armorer. I never saw an unmolested Series 80 FPS component cause an issue. Owners did sometimes create problems for themselves by monkeying with FPS equipped guns, without really knowing what they were doing. This usually involved attempting to lighten S80 triggers, even though trigger pull weight specs did not change between the Series 70 and Series 80 guns. And FWIW, trigger pulls down to 3 1/2# have been achieved in Series 80 Colt pistols, with all stock Series 80 FPS components intact.....ymmv

My problem with the Series 80 firing pin safety is that while the Series 70's were easy-peasie to take apart and clean, every time I have cleaned my Series 80, I find it very difficult to remove and reassemble without having three hands. The Series 80 makes disassembly/assembly more of a chore without providing any apparent benefit.

I have no complaint whatsoever with my Colt XSE Series 80 trigger pull. It was very good right out of the box.

[KyJim]

Ever since 1911 pistol manufacturers learned that a pistol with a titanium firing pin could pass the drop tests, there is no reason for the FP block. Just something else to go wrong or cause a lost part. That said, I have three with the FP block. I rarely shoot any of the three.

[zukiphile]

It can be hard to understand if I don't understand something as a result of my own failing, or whether this part of the gun world just isn't coherent.

So a 1911 might misfire if dropped. Unlikely things happen, so I guess I can see doing something that makes the product safer.

However, in the subsequent decades pistol fashion involved a re-insertion of risk that 1911s never had. First is the Glock revolution, a pistol with no safety lock whatsoever. I'm told that the ergonomic magic of that thumb switch will "get you killed". The second is appendix carry in which you take a glock like pistol with no safety lock and wear it pointed right at you genetic future. Yes, I know smart people who do both.

So, we've eliminated the scourge of dropped 1911s throwing bullets all over and progressed to pistols in which "safety on" isn't possible, and it is carried in a way that risks the short arm.

This makes less sense to me than pre-ripped jeans.

[44 AMP]

Yes, I know smart people who do both.

No, you don't.

If they do those things, they aren't "smart people".