IMR 3031 and .308

hounddawg · June 30, 2020, 01:58 PM

wanted to load up some plinking fodder for my AR10 and picked up a lb of 3031 at the LGS. I plan on using it with some 168 Match Monsters from Midsouth, CCI LRP's and new LC brass. Hogdon's load data says 39.0 to 42.0 for a Sierra HPBT 168 gn . Anyone have any previous experience or tips for it ? 1.5 - 2.0 MOA accuracy is perfectly acceptable

**44 AMP** · June 30, 2020, 02:25 PM

My ancient Lyman book says 37-42gr with a 168g bullet.

IMR 3031 is the fastest of the regular IMR rifle powders, and you're using new brass of unknown thickness, so I'd start at the low end of whatever data you are going to use. Load a few rounds and test them in your gun.

You may find the starting load lacks the oomph to work the action, OR you may find the starting load to be on the warm or even hot side due to the thickness of your brass.

Test and work up, carefully.

"new LC brass" you mean LC (Lake City)? military brass?? Loads in GI brass and loads in commercial brass are usually different.

**Unclenick** · June 30, 2020, 05:02 PM

Are IMR 4227 and 4198 not regular in some way?

3031 is usually considered an ideal 30-30 powder. It and 4198 both used to be more commonly loaded in 30-06 than they are today, too. But match shooters came to eschew them for 4895 and 4064 in the faster shooting 30s because of greater temperature sensitivity and charge error sensitivity. But loading 168-grain plinkers down around 2500 fps (in a 24" barrel) or so in the .308, 3031 should do fine, and that velocity gives you some wiggle room for the charge exactness and the temperature effects.

In that barrel length, Hodgdon's current data is for 39.0 grains to 42.0 grains for about 2500 fps to 2700 fps. This is using Winchester brass. Knock up to 2 grains off for heavier brass. Then just try them and work up to see what your component combination tolerates.

hounddawg · June 30, 2020, 08:00 PM

The LGS had a very limited selection of powders to choose from, the 3031 was the only one that was usable for .308 Win. I have several other powders that I could use but I am saving them for competition. If I can get them to cycle and do 2 MOA without pressure signs I will be satisfied. Good news was they had several shelves full of various primers, so I topped off my supply

603Country · June 30, 2020, 08:20 PM

I load IMR 3031 behind the SST 150 gr. Very accurate.

**44 AMP** · June 30, 2020, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Are IMR 4227 and 4198 not regular in some way?

They are quite regular for some things. apologies for not being more precise with my language.

What I meant was "regularly used loading .30 cal sized cases" and excluding the big magnums, from a guy who was doing it in the 70s....

essentially cases ranging from .30-30 through the common WWII military rounds. 3031, 4064, 4320, and 4985 were the most commonly used though some used 4350 for some things it was a bit too slow for most things in those cases.

3031 is the fast end of that range, 4198, and 4227 are faster, but because of that not as well suited to the "medium" size cases. I've got some great loads with 4198 in my .222 Rem. I've got a buffalo dropper 2200fps load with 4227 in .45-70 (Ruger #3 only!!!!) use 3031 in .30-30, used 4064 and 4320 in .308 until I discovered WW 748, and went to 4895 in .303 BRit, 7.7jap, 7.62 Russian, 8mm Mauser and .30-06 because that one gave me acceptable performance in all those cases.

zeke · July 1, 2020, 06:36 AM

3031 can be extremely accurate in 308 with 168-178 gn bullets, and was used by an old acquaintance for 308 match shooting with 308 garand. If memory serves, he used 41 grains with military surplus cases, but had to weigh each round.

hounddawg · July 1, 2020, 06:59 AM

Thanks for the replies from all. So it seems that accuracy is not a issue but it fairly temp sensitive. Not an issue since I normally load to a middle node. I use TAC on .223 plinking fodder and it is pretty temp sensitive from all reports and never had any problems

Bart B. · July 1, 2020, 07:25 AM

Military teams tried 41 grains of IMR3031 in 7.62 NATO match rifles. Excellent accuracy equal to IMR4895 and IMR4064. For no more than 25 shots as it was the dirtiest powder used.

hounddawg · July 1, 2020, 10:10 AM

good to know Bart, I will keep that in mind and will probably reserve these rounds for a SHTF scenario

cosh · July 1, 2020, 03:56 PM

Read it somewhere in military history - wasn't IMR3031 most commonly used in military cartridges (formula is probably improved now) in original surplus training ammo? Re: Bart B. - Agree - It probably is dirty though I only shot 10 rounds in a bolt action. Maybe better options in an AR10 unless its all that is left at the LGS.

Bart B. · July 2, 2020, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosh

Read it somewhere in military history - wasn't IMR3031 most commonly used in military cartridges (formula is probably improved now) in original surplus training ammo? Re: Bart B. - Agree - It probably is dirty though I only shot 10 rounds in a bolt action. Maybe better options in an AR10 unless its all that is left at the LGS.

IMR3031 wasn't used in any 30 caliber USA military standard service ammo I know of. One powder very close to it in burn rate was used in 7.62 NATO M80 service ammo made for use in USN converted Garands packaged in 8 round clips; IMR4475. Typically 41 grains. Military teams often rebulleted that M80 ammo with Sierra 150 grain match bullets. Test groups were half the size that of M118 or M852 7.62 match ammo.

While duPont Improved Military Rifle powders used similar formulas, all were not used in military ammunition.

cosh · July 3, 2020, 07:45 AM

Correction to my post - you are right Bart B. Thank you for the correction...

I was thinking it was IMR3031 but it was a SR4759 equivalent that was used for .30 cal M22 training rounds. Disregard the military reference for IMR3031.

Maven · July 8, 2020, 12:46 PM

I've had good success with 3031 out of an AR-10. 39.5 grain with Sierra 168g matchkings. I think (from memory) that 42 gains is a compressed load. Minute of paper plate at 300yds.

Being a long stick powder, it doesn't meter all that great. I measured individual loads using a Chargemaster with the straw mod and was getting repeatable charges within one grain stick. With that amount of effort, not exactly "plinking" ammo.

lonniemike · July 8, 2020, 02:06 PM

DuPont (IMR) sold 4895 powder's to militaries all over the world for probably a century. 44AMP, I have not seen the term 7.62Russian in a long time. 7.62Russian, I guess I'm that old. Sears in 1957 home delivered my Russian, back when NATO was just cranking up with it's then new ammo. BestAll

June 30, 2020, 01:58 PM	#1
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	IMR 3031 and .308 wanted to load up some plinking fodder for my AR10 and picked up a lb of 3031 at the LGS. I plan on using it with some 168 Match Monsters from Midsouth, CCI LRP's and new LC brass. Hogdon's load data says 39.0 to 42.0 for a Sierra HPBT 168 gn . Anyone have any previous experience or tips for it ? 1.5 - 2.0 MOA accuracy is perfectly acceptable __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

June 30, 2020, 02:25 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	My ancient Lyman book says 37-42gr with a 168g bullet. IMR 3031 is the fastest of the regular IMR rifle powders, and you're using new brass of unknown thickness, so I'd start at the low end of whatever data you are going to use. Load a few rounds and test them in your gun. You may find the starting load lacks the oomph to work the action, OR you may find the starting load to be on the warm or even hot side due to the thickness of your brass. Test and work up, carefully. "new LC brass" you mean LC (Lake City)? military brass?? Loads in GI brass and loads in commercial brass are usually different. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 30, 2020, 08:00 PM	#4
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	The LGS had a very limited selection of powders to choose from, the 3031 was the only one that was usable for .308 Win. I have several other powders that I could use but I am saving them for competition. If I can get them to cycle and do 2 MOA without pressure signs I will be satisfied. Good news was they had several shelves full of various primers, so I topped off my supply __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

July 1, 2020, 06:59 AM	#8
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Thanks for the replies from all. So it seems that accuracy is not a issue but it fairly temp sensitive. Not an issue since I normally load to a middle node. I use TAC on .223 plinking fodder and it is pretty temp sensitive from all reports and never had any problems __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

July 1, 2020, 10:10 AM	#10
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	good to know Bart, I will keep that in mind and will probably reserve these rounds for a SHTF scenario __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

June 30, 2020, 05:02 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Are IMR 4227 and 4198 not regular in some way? 3031 is usually considered an ideal 30-30 powder. It and 4198 both used to be more commonly loaded in 30-06 than they are today, too. But match shooters came to eschew them for 4895 and 4064 in the faster shooting 30s because of greater temperature sensitivity and charge error sensitivity. But loading 168-grain plinkers down around 2500 fps (in a 24" barrel) or so in the .308, 3031 should do fine, and that velocity gives you some wiggle room for the charge exactness and the temperature effects. In that barrel length, Hodgdon's current data is for 39.0 grains to 42.0 grains for about 2500 fps to 2700 fps. This is using Winchester brass. Knock up to 2 grains off for heavier brass. Then just try them and work up to see what your component combination tolerates. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 30, 2020, 08:20 PM	#5
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I load IMR 3031 behind the SST 150 gr. Very accurate.

July 1, 2020, 06:36 AM	#7
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	3031 can be extremely accurate in 308 with 168-178 gn bullets, and was used by an old acquaintance for 308 match shooting with 308 garand. If memory serves, he used 41 grains with military surplus cases, but had to weigh each round.

July 1, 2020, 07:25 AM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Military teams tried 41 grains of IMR3031 in 7.62 NATO match rifles. Excellent accuracy equal to IMR4895 and IMR4064. For no more than 25 shots as it was the dirtiest powder used.

July 1, 2020, 03:56 PM	#11
cosh Member Join Date: August 14, 2013 Posts: 39	Read it somewhere in military history - wasn't IMR3031 most commonly used in military cartridges (formula is probably improved now) in original surplus training ammo? Re: Bart B. - Agree - It probably is dirty though I only shot 10 rounds in a bolt action. Maybe better options in an AR10 unless its all that is left at the LGS.

July 3, 2020, 07:45 AM	#13
cosh Member Join Date: August 14, 2013 Posts: 39	Correction to my post - you are right Bart B. Thank you for the correction... I was thinking it was IMR3031 but it was a SR4759 equivalent that was used for .30 cal M22 training rounds. Disregard the military reference for IMR3031.

July 8, 2020, 12:46 PM	#14
Maven Junior Member Join Date: July 7, 2020 Posts: 3	I've had good success with 3031 out of an AR-10. 39.5 grain with Sierra 168g matchkings. I think (from memory) that 42 gains is a compressed load. Minute of paper plate at 300yds. Being a long stick powder, it doesn't meter all that great. I measured individual loads using a Chargemaster with the straw mod and was getting repeatable charges within one grain stick. With that amount of effort, not exactly "plinking" ammo.

July 8, 2020, 02:06 PM	#15
lonniemike Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2005 Posts: 138	DuPont (IMR) sold 4895 powder's to militaries all over the world for probably a century. 44AMP, I have not seen the term 7.62Russian in a long time. 7.62Russian, I guess I'm that old. Sears in 1957 home delivered my Russian, back when NATO was just cranking up with it's then new ammo. BestAll