Passing thru Colorado?

[viciouskitty]

Good Morning everybody,

In 2 weeks me and the wife are taking a trip from Texas to Utah to go skiing. I was planning on toting a rifle and pistol along with me just in case. We both have Chl’s and I looked at the reciprocity maps and determined that wouldn’t be a problem. But I’m wondering about magazines over 15 rounds in Colorado? Can I pass thru the state with standard capacity mags? Or am I gonna be breaking the law. Anyone have any better info on this subject?

[Ben Dover]

As long as you don't sell or gift them in Co. you should be okay.

[Aguila Blanca]

Guidance from the Handgunlaw.us web site: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf (scroll to page 12 of the PDF)

From the links there:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/a...zinBan2013.pdf

and

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B67h...Z3aWxMS3M/edit

[USNRet93]

Originally Posted by viciouskitty

Good Morning everybody,

In 2 weeks me and the wife are taking a trip from Texas to Utah to go skiing. I was planning on toting a rifle and pistol along with me just in case. We both have Chl’s and I looked at the reciprocity maps and determined that wouldn’t be a problem. But I’m wondering about magazines over 15 rounds in Colorado? Can I pass thru the state with standard capacity mags? Or am I gonna be breaking the law. Anyone have any better info on this subject?

Owning them isn't any issue. As a matter of fact, most decent LGS sell magazine 'kits' that are more than 15r..Grand fathered as below noted.

After July 1, 2013, magazines holding more than 15 rounds may not be sold, transferred, or possessed unless they were lawfully owned prior to July 1, 2013.

All mine were purchased before July 1st, 2013......

[corneileous]

I would think that once you’re in Colorado under Colorado’s laws that you’d have to abide by their magazine restriction.

I made two back to back trips to Colorado last summer and the summer before and just now realized that I probably could’ve gotten myself in hot water because of the 17 round magazine I had for my full-size PX4 40. I had no idea they had changed the law the very same year I moved away from the state.


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[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by corneileous

I would think that once you’re in Colorado under Colorado’s laws that you’d have to abide by their magazine restriction.

He does have to abide by Colorado's magazine restriction. That's why he asked the question.

The key point is that he has to abide by Colorado law, so what does the law actually prohibit? Does it prohibit the possession of any magazine with a capacity greater than 15, or is there a grandfather cause? From the responses given, it appears that there is a grandfather clause, which means that the law does not automatically prohibit possession of all 15+ round magazines, across the board.

An interesting question is how (or if) the law would apply to a resident of a state that has no magazine restriction who is visiting or passing through Colorado. If the visitor has a 15+ round magazine that was purchased after the July 1, 2013, cutoff date ... is that magazine legal in Colorado or not? The answer would depend on eactly how the law is worded. The person obtained the magazine legally in his/her home state and possesses it legally in his/her home state. If the text cited above is the actual text of the law:

After July 1, 2013, magazines holding more than 15 rounds may not be sold, transferred, or possessed unless they were lawfully owned prior to July 1, 2013.

then my not-a-lawyer opinion is that the magazines are not legal in Colorado because they were not "lawfully owned prior to July 1, 2013."

Do you know when your magazines were purchased?

[Sharkbite]

The good news in this is the grand father clause. Also he burden of proof is on the State to PROVE the mag was not purchased prior to the date.

That is pretty hard to do, unless your mag has a date stamp, some plastic AR mags do!! Another way would be mags that have mtpl generations of manufacture. Magpul mags have gone thru a number of modifications. Those could be used to “date” the mag.

The other good news point is LE in Colorado has gone on record saying they will not actively enforce this law. IIRC the only people to be charged under this law, have been charged with other things and this was an add on charge. Thats not a GREAT plan, but it eases the mind a bit

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

He does have to abide by Colorado's magazine restriction. That's why he asked the question.

The key point is that he has to abide by Colorado law, so what does the law actually prohibit? Does it prohibit the possession of any magazine with a capacity greater than 15, or is there a grandfather cause? From the responses given, it appears that there is a grandfather clause, which means that the law does not automatically prohibit possession of all 15+ round magazines, across the board.

An interesting question is how (or if) the law would apply to a resident of a state that has no magazine restriction who is visiting or passing through Colorado. If the visitor has a 15+ round magazine that was purchased after the July 1, 2013, cutoff date ... is that magazine legal in Colorado or not? The answer would depend on eactly how the law is worded. The person obtained the magazine legally in his/her home state and possesses it legally in his/her home state. If the text cited above is the actual text of the law:


then my not-a-lawyer opinion is that the magazines are not legal in Colorado because they were not "lawfully owned prior to July 1, 2013."

Do you know when your magazines were purchased?

I referenced guns to carry.com, and it doesn’t say anything about a grandfather clause before 2013 so, take that for whatever it’s worth- it just says that after July 13th, magazines over 15 rounds are prohibited. But from viewing the links that you posted, it seems to me that anybody; doesn’t matter if you’re out of state or a Colorado resident that, if you have a large capacity magazine that was made before 2013 then you can have it whether you’re a resident or an out-of-state visitor.

Also from the link you posted, I didn’t see anywhere about whether or not if you’re traveling to, or through the state but in this case it doesn’t matter anyway because the OP stated he was traveling to Colorado, not through it.

But to answer your question concerning my 17-round magazine that I had with me when I went, I don’t know when it was manufactured but, I bought it new at a store probably several months after I bought the gun back in ‘16 so, I’m pretty sure if I would have gotten caught with it that I coulda had a bad day.


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[Aguila Blanca]

Well, it never hurts to look at the actual law. It is quoted in the Colorado page on handgunlaw.us, but they also include a link that takes us to Lexis:

https://advance.lexis.com/documentpa...a-137bff0d3a2a

18-12-302. Large-capacity magazines prohibited - penalties - exceptions
(1)

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, on and after July 1, 2013, a person who sells, transfers, or possesses a large-capacity magazine commits a class 2 misdemeanor.
(b) Any person who violates this subsection (1) after having been convicted of a prior violation of said subsection (1) commits a class 1 misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who violates this subsection (1) commits a class 6 felony if the person possessed a large-capacity magazine during the commission of a felony or any crime of violence, as defined in section 18-1.3-406.

(2)

(a) A person may possess a large-capacity magazine if he or she:
(I) Owns the large-capacity magazine on July 1, 2013; and
(II) Maintains continuous possession of the large-capacity magazine.
(b) If a person who is alleged to have violated subsection (1) of this section asserts that he or she is permitted to legally possess a large-capacity magazine pursuant to paragraph (a) of this subsection (2), the prosecution has the burden of proof to refute the assertion.

...

Subparagraph (2) is the grandfather clause, and it's very clear in its wording. You may possess a "large capacity" magazine in Colorado if you legally owned it before July 1, 2013, and if you maintained continuous possession of it since July 1, 2013. So, based on the clear language of the law, if you bought a gun with a "large capacity" magazine on any date on or after July 1, 2013, you cannot legally possess those magazines in Colorado.

The law also provides that if you claim you legally possessed a large capacity magazine before the cutoff date, the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove that you didn't. For a visitor from out of state, one has to wonder if a prosecutor would want to go through the effort of trying to somehow prove that you bought THIS magazine on or after July 1, 2013. Still, to a risk-averse person like me, getting a couple of 10-round or 15-round magazines for visits to Colorado seems like cheap insurance. Two magazines will cost a lot less than an hour of a defense attorney's time.

Your mileage may vary.

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Well, it never hurts to look at the actual law. It is quoted in the Colorado page on handgunlaw.us, but they also include a link that takes us to Lexis:



https://advance.lexis.com/documentpa...a-137bff0d3a2a





Subparagraph (2) is the grandfather clause, and it's very clear in its wording. You may possess a "large capacity" magazine in Colorado if you legally owned it before July 1, 2013, and if you maintained continuous possession of it since July 1, 2013. So, based on the clear language of the law, if you bought a gun with a "large capacity" magazine on any date on or after July 1, 2013, you cannot legally possess those magazines in Colorado.



The law also provides that if you claim you legally possessed a large capacity magazine before the cutoff date, the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove that you didn't. For a visitor from out of state, one has to wonder if a prosecutor would want to go through the effort of trying to somehow prove that you bought THIS magazine on or after July 1, 2013. Still, to a risk-averse person like me, getting a couple of 10-round or 15-round magazines for visits to Colorado seems like cheap insurance. Two magazines will cost a lot less than an hour of a defense attorney's time.



Your mileage may vary.

Exactly. Both times when I went, even though I carried my Beretta in question in my clothes bag for both trips, my EDC that I had on me at the time was still my little legal Ruger LC9S that had 9+1.

But even then so, the 17 round magazine was loaded but, it wasn’t in the pistol. It was just in my range bag.

But speaking of magazine restrictions, when they say either 10 round or in the case of Colorado with their 15 round limit, are they just talking about the magazine, or what’s loaded into the pistol? I highly doubt I’ll ever have to worry about a 10 round state because to my knowledge, those states that restrict you to ten rounds are states that don’t even have reciprocity with my state anyways but, if I was to make another trip to Colorado, would my 9mm PX4 be legal since it’s magazines are 15 rounders? With one chambered, that’s 16 rounds.


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[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Corneileous

But speaking of magazine restrictions, when they say either 10 round or in the case of Colorado with their 15 round limit, are they just talking about the magazine, or what’s loaded into the pistol?

Once again, it's best to read the actual law. The section immediately preceding the part I quoted above has the definition:

https://advance.lexis.com/documentpa...d-d54a8a58de30

18-12-301. Definitions
As used in this part 3, unless the context otherwise requires:

(1) "Bureau" means the Colorado bureau of investigation created and existing pursuant to section 24-33.5-401, C.R.S.
(2)

(a) "Large-capacity magazine" means:

(I) A fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip, or similar device capable of accepting, or that is designed to be readily converted to accept, more than fifteen rounds of ammunition;
(II) A fixed, tubular shotgun magazine that holds more than twenty-eight inches of shotgun shells, including any extension device that is attached to the magazine and holds additional shotgun shells; or
(III) A nontubular, detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip, or similardevice that is capable of accepting more than eight shotgun shells when combined with a fixed magazine.

(b) "Large-capacity magazine" does not mean:

(I) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than fifteen rounds of ammunition;
(II) An attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition; or
(III) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

It seems pretty clear that, since the first definition is of a removable box or drum magazine, the fifteen round limit applies to the magazine, not to the magazine plus the chamber.

[44 AMP]

are they just talking about the magazine, or what’s loaded into the pistol?

They are talking about just the magazine. The spring loaded metal box, all by itself. Whether there is ammo in it, or not. A prohibited magazine is a prohibited magazine even if you don't even own a gun it fits in. If you have a spring loaded metal (or plastic) box larger than the listed size and made after the cutoff date, its illegal. Period.

This is different than the version of the New York "safe act" law that allowed 10rd magazines but limited the number of rounds allowed in them to 8.

[Katonk]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Once again, it's best to read the actual law. The section immediately preceding the part I quoted above has the definition:

https://advance.lexis.com/documentpa...d-d54a8a58de30


It seems pretty clear that, since the first definition is of a removable box or drum magazine, the fifteen round limit applies to the magazine, not to the magazine plus the chamber.

Sorry to resurrect and old thread but I just noticed that Adaptive Tactical has a caveat on their website stating that they will not sell their 12 gauge 10 round drum magazine in the State of Colorado....is it just because it is a "drum"?

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Katonk

Sorry to resurrect and old thread but I just noticed that Adaptive Tactical has a caveat on their website stating that they will not sell their 12 gauge 10 round drum magazine in the State of Colorado....is it just because it is a "drum"?

Since that state’s turning into California 2.0, I’m sure those liberals wouldn’t like the idea of a 10-round 12 gauge but all I know is they now have magazine restrictions to 10 rounds.


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[44 AMP]

Since the thread is 6 months old and we haven't heard back from the OP, I guess it went off ok.

Re-reading the OP and the responses, including my own, I did notice something that wasn't addressed, and should have been.

Can I pass thru the state with standard capacity mags?

What was lacking from the responses, (including my own ) was mention of the 1986 FOPA which, under certain conditions protects people "passing though" from restrictive state provisions.

Now, on to more modern stuff...

Adaptive Tactical has a caveat on their website stating that they will not sell their 12 gauge 10 round drum magazine in the State of Colorado....is it just because it is a "drum"?

to be certain, you'd need to ask them. Many businesses now refuse to sell to, or ship to a number of states where the item MIGHT be illegal. In many cases its not a matter of the law, exactly, its a matter of business.

Cost of keeping track and keeping current on every single item, where it might be illegal vs. estimated profit from doing business in that state(s).

Simply put, it may be cheaper for the company to simply lose (or give up) the business than to try to keep up with the changes in law, and the potential for law suits. IT may simply be the company doesn't want the hassle.

[Katonk]

44 AMP.....thanks for the response and I did indeed contact Adaptive this morning and here is their response regarding the 10 round drum mag restriction to Colorado:

"The law prohibits shotguns that come with a non-tubular, detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip, or similar device that is capable of accepting more than 8 shotgun shells when combined with a fixed magazine."