1851 Navy repair kit...

[oldwheat]

.......Anyone happen to know what Cabela's stock # is for these.....Got a blank look from the salesperson when I tried to order some ......

[mec]

I got one in Pietta Packaging from either Brownelles or Numrich - I disremember which. In fact, I got two of them. they have all the basic guts including hammer and trigger.

[Remington kid]

Old Wheat, I have the numbers in my work shop and if it quits pouring down rain I'll get them for you. If not I'll get them in the morning and post here.I posted the numbers on here before but can't remember where. Several people have ordered them from Cabelas.
I found out about them years ago when I ask Cabelas if I could talk to one of there techs about there 1858 .44. He was the one who told me they sell the parts kit but they were not listed. Ordered a 1851 right after Christmas and the same guy told me they had the kit's for them too so I ordered it with the revolver. Mike

[Remington kid]

Old Wheat, Here you go...I now see that Cabelas does list the parts kit.This will give you all the info or you can order it right there.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...equestid=51865

[oldwheat]

Thanks RC, I have a Cabela's store just down the road..I'll order them there & save shipping charges ..............

[gmatov]

When you go to the store, make sure you get the right kit.

If you click on the parts kit under the 58 Rem, or the '51 Navy, the same kit comes up IG-214052. Shows a pic of the Rem parts for both, says whichever pistol you are looking at, gives the same number for both.

This might be an ordering number only, they might ask whick pistol you want it for. Then again it might be the same kit you get no matter what you are looking for. And if you get hold of a dummy he might not even know there's a difference in the pistols.

Mike, did you ever check out the spare kit you got. I think you said nothing had broken in over a 1000 rounds. Hope they didn't send Rem parts with the Colt.

The price is right. Lowest I've found is 2 for bolt spring, 5 for main, 7, I think, for hand. You get bolt, trigger and hammer for 8 more. Nice to have in the box. I think I'd order extra TB springs. I think they probably break more than anything else. Even 1 more hand and spring would, likewise, be nice.

Oldwheat, you lucky dog, you, couple miles. Gotta drive 65 for my store. I DO spend less money since it's so far away.

Cheers,

George

[Remington kid]

George, Are you going to the new store in Wheeling? I haven't made it up there yet but I hear it's really great!
When I got my Remington's a few years back I asked the order girl about the repair kit that I had heard about and she had no idea what I was talking about. Then I asked if I could talk to someone who knew all about the guns and she put me in touch with a tech and he had the item number and stated that for some reason they don't list it but they have them.I ordered a set for each one and have never had to use them.
When I bought this 51 I again asked the girl and she had no idea so ended up talking to another tech and sure enough he had the parts kit for it too and the numbers are different than my Remington.So far I have replaced the hand (Spring)and the bolt spring in his Colt.
After I published the order numbers on here and other sites I see that they now list the parts but I never noticed the same number problem that your talking about . I do know that the Colt kit will fit several guns but when you look at the kit for the Remington they show the kit for the Colt, You can tell by the hand.
Hope your weather is as nice as ours? It's going to rain today but it may reach 80, we need the rain. Take care, Mike

[Wayner]

Rem Kid, when you ordered your Colt Navy did you get a good one the first time out? I had to send back three and the forth one was good except for a screw on the upper backstrape too close to the outsaide edge.I kept it since everything else was good. The first one I ordered had a "too" big alignment problem and I thought the frame window for the bolt was milled too far to oine side and it would have been too far out to "fix" readily.

The second one had too much milled offin the breech of the barrel and the gap was too big for my taste. It had the rifling way deeper on one side of the barrel than the other side where it was real shallow.

The third one had a loose arbor where it screws into the frame.

They were all real nice pistols but all,even the one I kept, have some sort of quality control aspect making for a blooper somewhere.

I have been told that distributors pay more for the guns in a higher range of quality control and pay less when importing them when the order includes the lower range of quality control. I'm apt to believe that since I had to send back three pistols. Maybe I just have no good luck and am cursed. hee hee I could add that I have ordered Remingtons from the place and they come in pretty well defect free. What does ya think? Maybe find out if EMF, that says they hold Pietta to strict specifications, really sells better quality and pay the higher price for the "Hartford" guns?

[Remington kid]

Wayner, My Colt was great including the finish. I had one very small nick under the loading lever on the barrel. It took a little work to smooth it up but I injoy that aspect of these revolvers.If I could I would buy all of them in kit for and in the white and do the finish work myself.
Both of my Remington .44 and the two extra cylinders with them were perfectly times and no flaws. The finish was not like a chrome bluing of the old Sako and Weatherby rifles but it wasn't bad either.
I think you just had some bad luck. When you read about all the people on here who were really happy with there gun's from Pietta and Cabellas they must not be to bad. Eagle24 had to send back a Remington.44 to Cabellas but they sent him a replacement right away and he said it's great and he couldn't be happier.
A friend of mine had a 51 with a loose arbor and he just pined it all the way around the area where it comes through the shield with a nail set checking it with a small square as went. He never had any problems with it at all and it stayed tight.
Uberti has there problems also as I have seen several of them. The ones that some of these company's re-work are great but not worth the extra money to me when I can make it look and act the same or better for much less.
I do agree that if you have the money and want a nice one and you don't have the time or ability to re-work these Revolvers then buying from one of the company's you mentioned above is the best way to go.
Did I say money....whats that? When retired as I am thats a luxury that I lack, Mike

[Missoura Don]

hey Wayner...you said on one of the 51's you had....the breech end of barrel was milled to much, and had a gap that wasnt comftorble with you....i just bought a '60 Army from cabelas, and...looking at that same gap, I can see daylight at the right angles, and can slip a piece of post it paper in between cylinder and barrel...(wish I had some REAL gunsmithing tools to play with), but when I fold the post it,,,it wont fit...I can put pressure upwards on the barrel and close the gap....Is this something serious ya think?...Thanks...

[Wayner]

Rem Kid, reworkin these "kit" guns, as some refer to them isn't always able to be done by the average "kitchen table gunsmith". Know what I mean. Not everyone wants to do as you do. Take a gun with a barrel that is milled too much at the forcing cone and makes for a widder than proper cylinder/barrel gap for example.
That requires the barrel be changed for a new proper one or be set back some. To buy a new one it costs about $80+. To set the original barrel back it requires a perfectly perpendicular to the bore of the barrel mill job at the bottom of the barrel.
Then if the barrel has to be set back far enough to get a proper gap(at least .010-.012 in. or closer for some people at .003-.006) and that goes beyond the wedges limit to be driven in further to tighten the barrel then the arbors slot has to be set back also.
That requires material added from a weld and then a "file fit" of the wedge into the new set back slot in the arbor. Whew! I'd rather send that one back if it's a new gun.
Sometimes the alignment of the chambers to the bore is so far off that it can't be properly fixed without forcing the bolt too close to the hammers cam and causing a problem there. I've had to fix guns like that and it's a bitch to get the bolt to not wear off the cam on the hammer and to time the gun properly. That can make the bolt stay on the hammers cam too long and make the bolt "hit" the edge of the cylinders locking notch and deform meal into the notch and make the bolt "not" want to get into the hole. Ect. ect. Sometimes a new cylinder that isn't a reject from the inspection dept. has to be bought. Sometimes it's the frames bolt window that is milled too far off. Whew!

Anywhooo, your Buddy that peened his arbor tighter will probably have the problem reaccure. Peened metal gets weaker from the deformation. Next time his arbor loosens have him set another locking pin at the reasr of the arbor at a 90 degree tyo the one that's ther already. That may hold er if the arbors shoulder is firmly against the frame.

Missoura Don, that "is" a problem you got with being able to close the gap by bending the gun. That means the arbor could be loose. Ckeck it for movement. If it isn't moving than you have a loose fitting wedge or ,most likely too much space betweeen the arbor and the barrels arbor hole. Also the barrel ain't bottomed in the barrels arbor hole. Check with some color on the end of the arbor if the arbor is bottomed with the wedge tight. If not then make a round piece of shim cut with scissors to put in the bottom of the arbor hole or add material(weld- braze) and file it to fit bottomed. You could go thye easy route and just put a piece of shim on the top end of the arbor to tighten the arbor in the hole of the barrel. That works even better than the bottomed arbor. Optimum would be to bottom the arbor and take the space from between the arbor anfd the barrels arbor hole by a shim. If the shim slides when you try to get it in the hole with the arbor then use a screw driver to keep t from sliding. It has to be done with a shim that is not overly thick and then cut with scissors. The narrower it is the looser it will fit. That fact helps a person get a shim to fit. Usually a piece of aluminum pie plate works but if that is too thick then you'll have to go to a thinner shim from an auto parts store. Shim material that is soifter than steel shim makes for a form fit in the hole. That gets looser with firing after awhile but it takes but a few seconds to cut out a new one. Take your pick. If the arbor is tight to the frame and the wedge is fit tight then shim the frames arbor in the barrels arbor hole(shim on the "top" end of the arbor) or shim the bottom of the barrels arbor hole to bottom the arbor in that hole or... do both. Know what I mean?

[Remington kid]

Wayner, Never realized you were talking about major problems in your first post to me. If they were problems your speaking of now then yes, I would send it back also. I thought you were referring to blemishes, smoothing the action or minor timing of the cylinder, replacing sights, cutting in dove tails with hacksaw and files, chamfering bore, breach and cylinders,hardening a hammer or hand and so on.
As for your statement that not everyone wants to do as I do I think I made that clear in my last post but just in case you didn't see it here it is again:

"I do agree that if you have the money and want a nice one and you don't have the time or ability to re-work these Revolvers then buying from one of the company's you mentioned above is the best way to go."
Mike

[gmatov]

Mike,

Here's your link, for the '51 and the rest of the Colts:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...equestid=85464

I hope that don't come out 2 screens wide.

Here's the '58 Army parts kit. Note the same parts as the Colt kit, all Rem parts, and the same order number.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...817&hasJS=true

I think that Smith has a better fit and finish than Colt OR Ruger. Personal opinion.

I don't own an Uberti or a Cimmaron. I can't say they are better or worse than a Pietta. I know that I would choose the Pietta, for the money, rather than pay for what I look at as a better reputation as posted to these forums.

For one thing, Wayner says he got X bad guns, this was wrong on this one, that was bad on that one, something else was bad on the last one, but a good one came in, finally, well, not good, really, but better.

That seems to mean to me that they might have tolerances that you look at and see as something bad. One was an offcenter bore in a barrel. I really find it hard to believe that ANY machining company cannot drill a hole in the center of a bar of octagon stock.

Piettas are not as bad as they are made out to be. I would say they are probably better made than the original Colts, as the machinery is better, as is the steel.

Personally, like Mike, I would sooner make a reasonably priced pistol work properly than to pay 50 % more and chances are the higher priced gun has come off the same dock.

DON,

If you gotta get some tools, go to your local KMart and spend 5 bucks for a set of feeler guages. Measure the gap you got.

And, what do you mean you can push up on the muzzle and close the cyl gap? If it is tight in the wedge, drift it a little tighter, it doesn't close the gap, you got a bottomed arbor. You DON'T got a solid attachment at the mating point at the barrel extension. So, if you ARE drove up tight, and you DO bend the barrel up, of course you will close the gap, you are bending it around the fulcrum of the tight barrel wedge, arbor meet.

Worry about something else, thinking about all the problems you COULD have from the posts here will destroy any hopes of pleasure you can hope to have with these guns as shooters.

Man, people are trying to treat these things as Sheutzens. They are crude, first tries at revolving pistols, a 150 year old model. They are not Hammerlis.

Have fun, forget about a few thou here and there.

Cheers,

George

[Remington kid]

George, I see that they are the same number in there on line catalog. Don't know whats up with that unless they scewed it up or they are saying you have to ask for the right parts kit.
They had two seperate numbers when I ordered the 1851 and the parts kit for it. The hand on the 51 has a stud on it that fits in the hole on the trigger and on the 58 Rem it has a small screw that holds it in. The bolt spring on the Rem is a little bigger but believe it or not it will work in the 51, I tried it just for the heck of it.The rest of the parts are different and wont interchange.Looks like everyone should be warned to ask for the right kit.
I sent an email to Cabelas just in case there not aware of it.
Did you get your new tools yet??? Hurry up, I want to come up and try them out Mike

[oldwheat]

I checked with Cabela's this AM & was told that the warehouse is presently out of stock & they couldn't tell me when they were expecting more.....I suppose that it will be a while & wouldn't be at all surprised if the price goes up appreciably.....I ordered a couple each of hand & spring & TB spring from VTI to have on hand for the present..The internal parts have been hardened for a while now & the springs have all been tweaked....Should have the situation covered for some time but I think I will backorder a parts set from Cabela's just to be on the safe side.............

[oldwheat]

Double post again & I'm sure that I only hit the button once, lol....

[Missoura Don]

Hey George...yer right man...maybe I am playin to much into this...but I'd rather be more safe than sorry...I really like havin all my fingers..I am gonna get a set of feeler gauges this weekend and measure the gap...Come to find out..it wasnt the barrel bein pushed up, it was a tiny excess of play in the cylinder, I just got a little concerned when I saw daylight through the gap, no more worryin about it unless its somethin really serious I guess...cause I damn shore dont want anything ruinin my fun with this!!! thanks

[Remington kid]

MD, With your wedge in place and hammer on half cock you should be able to move your cylinder back a shade and it will feel like it's on a spring. That's because your pushing it against your hand spring. While holding it back place a piece of paper between the cylinder and the barrel and then let go of the cylinder and slide the paper out. It should come out freely.
If you have no play between your cylinder and your barrel it's way to tight and it will bind up on you as you shoot. Hope this helps, Mike

[mec]

"have been told that distributors pay more for the guns in a higher range of quality control and pay less when importing them when the order includes the lower range of quality control..."

It's hard to get a straight answer about this from any of the actual distributors. I've seen one of the Pietta brothers deny it on an internet board. I'm sure it was absolutely true in the past. Pietta owes a lot to outfits like Midway, Cabelas and Dixie who will keep on sending out replacements until one of them sticks. Dixie will do the same with Palmetto and I don't see how they can afford it given what I've heard and seen personally in ref: Palmetto Arms.

Cimarron actually opens the wrapper and inspects the Uberti's they send out. I don't know about anybody else.

[gmatov]

Mec,

That's where having a Cabela's relatively close comes in handy. My Cabela's 58 Rem was beautifu, and looked to be mechanically sound, except for a 1/4 inch long, deeply blued gouge 1/2 inch from the muzzle. Cosmetic. Had I bought it on GB or AA, I would likely have seen it if the pics were decent, adjusted my top bid accordingly.

Since it was my first store bought pistol, I thought it should be near perfect. Asked if I could take it to the WVA store for exchange, "Why, certainly!"

Did so, was given another, no questions asked, well, is it broke, and asked if I might open the box and inspect it. Absolutely! It was perfect in appearance, and has proved to be perfect in operation, with the exception of the standard too tall front sight.

A Pietta. I am happy with it. I will buy another, though with 5 now, I don't need any more, just want them.

I don't think Pietta is dumping their junk on Cabela's . As "the world's biggest outfitter", should Cabela's decide they were, Pietta's sales might be halved.

As you say, Cimmaron might open the box and check them out, those that do not pass go back, but they probably get just as many that you, or many others here, would consider defective.

Hell of it is, you, or many others here would be able to rectify small discrepancies, where the majority of new shooters would not even know they have a discrepancy. Would just happily plug away. And, with practice, probably wind up with 3 inch 25 yard groups, just as we do.

THEN, the s**t hits the fan. They learn that there are forums for this sport. Post about their guns, find out that all things considered, it is the expert and unanimous opinion that there is no way they could reasonably expect to hit the side of a barn, from the inside, with that piece of crap.

That does keep the forum running, and the rest of us involved, though, doesn't it?

Cheers,

George

[mec]

"I don't think Pietta is dumping their junk on Cabela's . As "the world's biggest outfitter", should Cabela's decide they were, Pietta's sales might be halved..."

It would be an extremely un-smart corporate decision. I do think there were different levels of quality with Uberti and Pietta in the past though.

[Steve499]

Palmettos? We don't need no stinkin Palmettos!

Steve

[Remington kid]

Ah come on Steve, You know you really like the Palmettos.

[mec]

In perspective, the Palmettos serve several purposes:
1. They evoke a sense of continuity- They recall the old days of replicas when customer service, quality control and authenticity were considered signs of weakness;
2. They make good bait-You can leave them out in plain sight so the burglars will see them as easy targets and leave the better stuff alone;
3. They remind us that Burglars have a place in the balance of nature. Finding your door kicked open and discovering all your Palmettos gone may make you actual GLAD that you have been burglarized.

[Low Key]

Hmmmm.....
Palmetto as bait for a burglar....now that's a good idea!
It would be greatly worth the cost of purchase if it decoyed any burglars away from my gun safe, and at the same time it perfectly fits the definition of "wall hanger"!! (Might have to take off any manufacturers markings so the BG can't actually identify it as a palmetto)