ok - got plans for the ultimate safe room, what is ultimate alarm/security system?

RustyRP · March 21, 2001, 08:30 AM

the safe room stuff was very interesting

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=56029

any suggestions on home alarm features to be thinking about?

i was thinking along the lines of a layered defense - as such id much rather stop them outside the house (before they can break in)

there would be IR break beam or motion detectors outside of the house to show that someone / anyone was approaching (maybe even at the driveway if down a long drive)

cameras outside the house to view those approaching.

security lights outside bright enuf to play baseball at 3 am

invisible fence the front yard & get two rottweilers?

then all doors & windows would be wired.

etc, etc

other ideas?

gunmart · March 21, 2001, 09:59 AM

A system with a back up cellular is a great thing to have in The event someone cuts your phone line.in addition here are some other thoughts.

Control panel with a panic code by the bed.
Smoke and fire detectors
Video surveillance of key rooms of the house leading up to the safe room viewable from the safe room.

Couple of things about the safe room.

Avoid back lighting yourself.dont stand by a open window and don't have large glowing alarm clocks in the room.(this can give your position away if they make entry.)

be able to control the lights to other key parts and outside of the house from your safe room.(its amazing how when lights start popping on all over the place how people tend to run.)

have a evacuation plan in case things go really bad even if it means cutting a big hole in the wall or throwing a chair out the window and jumping>(seems far fetched but it is better to have a plan and not need it than it is to need it and not have it.)

hasher · March 21, 2001, 06:22 PM

Ok here it goes.

The exterior stuff is nice but it also deteects deer, dogs, cats,ect. Exterior motion lights are great especially if they have an override switch that allows you to flip them on if you are suspicious. Drivveway sensors are ok but get annoying.

Exterior cameras are great but pricey. Here you get exactly what you pay for. There is a lot of stuff out there that is available from places like Wally World and it tends to wear out quickly. You must also factor in environmental conditions. If you live int he Great White Nortn or any other place that cets cold you will need heated enclosures for the cameras, in humid climates you need an enclosure with a blower to keep the humidity down.

As for the alarm system contacts and glass breaks form the perimiter and the motions are the backup. also spend the money and get the monitored fire system. it will add about 3-500 on average to the cost but it is worht it. Get the wireless panics. Cellular backup is now available by using a product called Alarm Net "C". cost is about $350 and $10-$15 per month. THe only type of equipment i can recommend is ADEMCO. It is simply the best.

Now before you all light me up with your replies please rember that I have spent the last eight years of my life doing this for a living every day. I have worked for several of the major companies as wellas a couple of little ones as well. I have designed approxamatly 1900 systems and have used just about every type of equipment there is.

Hasher

RustyRP · March 21, 2001, 10:07 PM

hasher - what was the number one, flat out, money is no object, no holds barred system that you put in?

as much detail as you can stand would be appreciated - thanks Rusty

hasher · March 22, 2001, 12:48 PM

The biggest was about $37,000. It was a full peimiter system with camera coverage and a ssmall access control system for the staff. The biggest commercial system I have ever sone was a commercial ststem that is burg, fire access and cameras that went around $450,000 for everything.

what kind of details are you looking for?

RustyRP · March 23, 2001, 09:37 PM

idunno

maybe how you wired the pepper spray cannisters above the entry door into the system - lol

details? how many zones (for starters) wired or wireless sensors, IR motion detectors vs. break beams,

does every window need a magnet sensor, or would a sound (glass breaking) or motion (someones in the room) provide protection for the room, etc etc etc.

i guess, being that you are in the business, what kind of system would you get for your own place.

ERRainman · March 23, 2001, 11:38 PM

As someone who's been in the business but got out, I wanna know what hasher might suggest. I won't even pretend to come close to the sheer $$ amounts of his jobs, but I've designed a few fairly impressive ones myself. Installed some real wild ones for a couple of people who were s#!$ magnets and had the money to pay for whatever they wanted.

I have to agree with hasher on the wireless panix and I would suggest a fogging system that *YOU* control. The ones tied into your alarm panel are not idiot proof and a few of them I've seen weren't even idiot resistant. They do work wonders at a business at at home (if you control them) though, unless one of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six teams is knockin down your door.

If you are really serious and have the money to spend, cell backup has become very affordable. There are great systems that actually centrally monitor the sonic activity in the building when the alarm is tripped. I never wanted someone to have the ability to hear what was going on in my home/business if one of the kids set it off by accident or one of the Danes tripped a "pet sensitive" detector. All that stuff gets recorded - can you imagine the laughs the monitoring guys are having when your dog sets off the alarm in the middle of . . .

As for outside PIR/motions - there are some good signatured detectors out there that can determine the difference between a cat and a cat burglar, but anything over ~ 75 lbs confuses it, and they have to be set up correctly. And hasher is on target with the cold climate stuff. Extremes in temperature have a tendency to play tricks on PIR/motion detectors.

If you have a big enough place (and the $$$), privacy fence with a couple of loyal, trained canine helpers who can't be drawn away with food or another dog (get a couple of females - they could care less about another bitch in heat). Just remember, there are lots of ways to disable a dog if someone is intent upon accessing your home/business/loved ones. Full perimeter alarm with glassbreaks and PIR/motion/signatured detectors as backup. I like alarm screens myself, but that's some serious $$$. My cost was $50/each a few years ago (as an insider in the business), but if you cut or remove one the alarm is tripped.

Shoot for exterior strobes to silently alert the neighbors/LEO/first responders. These can be mounted anywhere on or in close proximity to the structure. I've done a series of them down the driveway (looooong driveway) in a rural setting to show the way to the house.

Do the full fire protection system.

All the rest I think I laid out pretty well if you are designing from the foundation up during the discussion. Several others had some wonderful ideas - I like Bogies about the hidden spirals, but hey! I'm just the kind of person who would build something like that just say I did it!

Oh yeah, one more thing. Don't start shooting until you have to and don't stop until the threat isn't any longer. Then, look for other threats.

ERRainman

OkieGentleman · March 26, 2001, 11:47 PM

For outside protection there is a system that uses a buried cable about 12 to 18 inch deep. You can "tune" the system to ignore mass amounts below a certain amount. You can actually tune this thing to ignore a 100 lb dog, but sound off if a 125 lb man crosses the sensor path.
For CCTV there is a system that "senses" movement within the field of view of the camera and imposes an outline that follows the intruder even in deep shadow where you cannot tell that anything is there. This is also size adjustable.
Glass break detectors should not be put on a 24 hr circuit as they will give you problems.
Cell phone back up is not that expensive and with battery backup will be good for several days if the battery is large enough. Do you really need a land line if you have a cell phone setup? This could also be your call out phone as many of them have a handset.
CCTV there are cameras that are about the size of you little finger avaible for about $200 to $300 wholesale pricing. A timelapse VCR capable of 168 hr recording is a minimum, combined with a good multiplexer system to control the cameras and you have a nice system.
And I am not going to tell you what my largest system cost the customer.

March 21, 2001, 08:30 AM	#1
RustyRP Member Join Date: September 26, 1999 Posts: 99	the safe room stuff was very interesting http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=56029 any suggestions on home alarm features to be thinking about? i was thinking along the lines of a layered defense - as such id much rather stop them outside the house (before they can break in) there would be IR break beam or motion detectors outside of the house to show that someone / anyone was approaching (maybe even at the driveway if down a long drive) cameras outside the house to view those approaching. security lights outside bright enuf to play baseball at 3 am invisible fence the front yard & get two rottweilers? then all doors & windows would be wired. etc, etc other ideas?

March 21, 2001, 09:59 AM	#2
gunmart Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2000 Posts: 551	A system with a back up cellular is a great thing to have in The event someone cuts your phone line.in addition here are some other thoughts. Control panel with a panic code by the bed. Smoke and fire detectors Video surveillance of key rooms of the house leading up to the safe room viewable from the safe room. Couple of things about the safe room. Avoid back lighting yourself.dont stand by a open window and don't have large glowing alarm clocks in the room.(this can give your position away if they make entry.) be able to control the lights to other key parts and outside of the house from your safe room.(its amazing how when lights start popping on all over the place how people tend to run.) have a evacuation plan in case things go really bad even if it means cutting a big hole in the wall or throwing a chair out the window and jumping>(seems far fetched but it is better to have a plan and not need it than it is to need it and not have it.)

March 21, 2001, 06:22 PM	#3
hasher Member Join Date: February 3, 2001 Posts: 34	Ok here it goes. The exterior stuff is nice but it also deteects deer, dogs, cats,ect. Exterior motion lights are great especially if they have an override switch that allows you to flip them on if you are suspicious. Drivveway sensors are ok but get annoying. Exterior cameras are great but pricey. Here you get exactly what you pay for. There is a lot of stuff out there that is available from places like Wally World and it tends to wear out quickly. You must also factor in environmental conditions. If you live int he Great White Nortn or any other place that cets cold you will need heated enclosures for the cameras, in humid climates you need an enclosure with a blower to keep the humidity down. As for the alarm system contacts and glass breaks form the perimiter and the motions are the backup. also spend the money and get the monitored fire system. it will add about 3-500 on average to the cost but it is worht it. Get the wireless panics. Cellular backup is now available by using a product called Alarm Net "C". cost is about $350 and $10-$15 per month. THe only type of equipment i can recommend is ADEMCO. It is simply the best. Now before you all light me up with your replies please rember that I have spent the last eight years of my life doing this for a living every day. I have worked for several of the major companies as wellas a couple of little ones as well. I have designed approxamatly 1900 systems and have used just about every type of equipment there is. Hasher

March 21, 2001, 10:07 PM	#4
RustyRP Member Join Date: September 26, 1999 Posts: 99	hasher - what was the number one, flat out, money is no object, no holds barred system that you put in? as much detail as you can stand would be appreciated - thanks Rusty

March 22, 2001, 12:48 PM	#5
hasher Member Join Date: February 3, 2001 Posts: 34	The biggest was about $37,000. It was a full peimiter system with camera coverage and a ssmall access control system for the staff. The biggest commercial system I have ever sone was a commercial ststem that is burg, fire access and cameras that went around $450,000 for everything. what kind of details are you looking for?

March 23, 2001, 09:37 PM	#6
RustyRP Member Join Date: September 26, 1999 Posts: 99	idunno maybe how you wired the pepper spray cannisters above the entry door into the system - lol details? how many zones (for starters) wired or wireless sensors, IR motion detectors vs. break beams, does every window need a magnet sensor, or would a sound (glass breaking) or motion (someones in the room) provide protection for the room, etc etc etc. i guess, being that you are in the business, what kind of system would you get for your own place.

March 23, 2001, 11:38 PM	#7
ERRainman Member Join Date: July 21, 1999 Posts: 76	As someone who's been in the business but got out, I wanna know what hasher might suggest. I won't even pretend to come close to the sheer $$ amounts of his jobs, but I've designed a few fairly impressive ones myself. Installed some real wild ones for a couple of people who were s#!$ magnets and had the money to pay for whatever they wanted. I have to agree with hasher on the wireless panix and I would suggest a fogging system that YOU control. The ones tied into your alarm panel are not idiot proof and a few of them I've seen weren't even idiot resistant. They do work wonders at a business at at home (if you control them) though, unless one of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six teams is knockin down your door. If you are really serious and have the money to spend, cell backup has become very affordable. There are great systems that actually centrally monitor the sonic activity in the building when the alarm is tripped. I never wanted someone to have the ability to hear what was going on in my home/business if one of the kids set it off by accident or one of the Danes tripped a "pet sensitive" detector. All that stuff gets recorded - can you imagine the laughs the monitoring guys are having when your dog sets off the alarm in the middle of . . . As for outside PIR/motions - there are some good signatured detectors out there that can determine the difference between a cat and a cat burglar, but anything over ~ 75 lbs confuses it, and they have to be set up correctly. And hasher is on target with the cold climate stuff. Extremes in temperature have a tendency to play tricks on PIR/motion detectors. If you have a big enough place (and the $$$), privacy fence with a couple of loyal, trained canine helpers who can't be drawn away with food or another dog (get a couple of females - they could care less about another bitch in heat). Just remember, there are lots of ways to disable a dog if someone is intent upon accessing your home/business/loved ones. Full perimeter alarm with glassbreaks and PIR/motion/signatured detectors as backup. I like alarm screens myself, but that's some serious $$$. My cost was $50/each a few years ago (as an insider in the business), but if you cut or remove one the alarm is tripped. Shoot for exterior strobes to silently alert the neighbors/LEO/first responders. These can be mounted anywhere on or in close proximity to the structure. I've done a series of them down the driveway (looooong driveway) in a rural setting to show the way to the house. Do the full fire protection system. All the rest I think I laid out pretty well if you are designing from the foundation up during the discussion. Several others had some wonderful ideas - I like Bogies about the hidden spirals, but hey! I'm just the kind of person who would build something like that just say I did it! Oh yeah, one more thing. Don't start shooting until you have to and don't stop until the threat isn't any longer. Then, look for other threats. ERRainman

March 26, 2001, 11:47 PM	#8
OkieGentleman Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 1999 Location: OKC Metro Posts: 521	For outside protection there is a system that uses a buried cable about 12 to 18 inch deep. You can "tune" the system to ignore mass amounts below a certain amount. You can actually tune this thing to ignore a 100 lb dog, but sound off if a 125 lb man crosses the sensor path. For CCTV there is a system that "senses" movement within the field of view of the camera and imposes an outline that follows the intruder even in deep shadow where you cannot tell that anything is there. This is also size adjustable. Glass break detectors should not be put on a 24 hr circuit as they will give you problems. Cell phone back up is not that expensive and with battery backup will be good for several days if the battery is large enough. Do you really need a land line if you have a cell phone setup? This could also be your call out phone as many of them have a handset. CCTV there are cameras that are about the size of you little finger avaible for about $200 to $300 wholesale pricing. A timelapse VCR capable of 168 hr recording is a minimum, combined with a good multiplexer system to control the cameras and you have a nice system. And I am not going to tell you what my largest system cost the customer.