Wax on lead bullets ?? and Crimping on grease ring?

Lou765 · August 22, 2014, 07:22 PM

I reload 125 gr lead FNRP bullets for CAS in .38 Spl and the bullets themselves always have a wax or greasy coating on them.
What is it?
What purpose does it serve?
My loaded rounds seem to load in the gun(mag tube) easier if I wipe it all off but I am not sure if it serves a purpose or not.
Also would like to know if its ok to crimp on the grease ring?
Thank you

skizzums · August 22, 2014, 09:29 PM

don't crimp on the grease ring if its full of lube.....but if its just tumble lubed(that would be why they are waxy all over) then crimp wherever you want. pic please

Lou765 · August 23, 2014, 10:43 AM

Thanks for the reply.
1.I have read that other people crimp on the grease ring so I am confused with that answer. It would be the only way I could get a longer OAL.

2.Still unclear if I should wipe off the waxy coating or does it serve some purpose after they are loaded?

Col. Mosby · August 23, 2014, 12:03 PM

Looking at your photo the crimp ring is not where the lube is. The crimp ring is above the lubed area at the base of the bullet's ogive. Not sure what the waxy coating is for sure, the bullets may have been tumbled lubed then sized and lubed as well. That blue lube should be all you need. If you were casting, sizing and lubing your own bullets, your lube would end up just where the blue lube is with just a little residue on the lead. Why do you feel the need for a longer cartridge? The MAXIMUM OAL for a .38 spc. cartridge w/ bullet is listed as 1.550 in my Lyman book. You may go shorter just not longer. Hope this helps some. If you are still worried about the waxy stuff, go straight to the manf. and ask. Sometimes as I am sure you know cyber advice can be incorrect.

Col. Mosby · August 23, 2014, 12:10 PM

After the cartrige is loaded you may wipe any residue off of the bullet and case, it will not effect a thing, as the blue lube ring is encased in the case below the case mouth. If you do not use carbide sizing dies and lube your cases as a seperate step then you need to wipe of the cartridge anyway.

skizzums · August 23, 2014, 02:38 PM

the only way I would see people crimping on the lube groove, is if another lube method was used or if it had multiple lube grooves like many .38spl do.. since all of your lube is in that one groove, your going to displace it by crimping into that groove and probably lose a lot of it on the brass rather than in the barrel where it belongs

T. O'Heir · August 23, 2014, 04:14 PM

A .38 out of a revolver? No crimp at all for a revolver. Very light crimp for a lever action. Just enough to keep the bullet in place. Don't remove the lube.
125 RN's are kind of light for a .38 too.

Lou765 · August 23, 2014, 08:00 PM

Thanks for the replies. I ll stay above the grove for the crimp and wipe them off then.

skizzums · August 23, 2014, 11:01 PM

dont concern yourself with oal too much on 38 special, unless your loading to near max pressures, which you wouldnt be with lead bullets anyways, your not going to hurt anything with a shorter oal, i have never had any feeding issues in a lever period, no matter what the oal is on 38 or 357. you could go too long for the chamber, but dont get too concerned with being a little short.what kind of powder and charge are you doing?

Barnacle Brad · August 23, 2014, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

No crimp at all for a revolver.

Why is there a crimp groove? Of course you crimp revolver bullets. Light crimp for light loads and heavier for max loads.

The crimp groove determines the seating depth. I don't know why you want a longer COL.

As far as the waxy film - it may be applied to prevent or at least inhibit the loss of lube during shipping and handling. Wipe it off after seating.

You mentioned "others" seating to the lube groove. Do you know why and what they wanted to achieve? Cast bullets are designed to be seated to the crimp groove. That is what it is there for.

You are right to ask questions about the process, your mission now is to filter out what are the correct answers. If you think you have the answer, please verify it using other resources.

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-...t+crimp+groove
Is a good start. Good luck!

Lou765 · August 24, 2014, 10:34 AM

The reason the .38 OAL is important is because in Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) some lever action rifles run better at different OAL. We push these guns to the max trying to cycle 10 rounds in 2 or 3 sec and the OAL can determine how well a particular gun runs or doesn't run with that ammo.
Thank you for the replies.

Barnacle Brad · August 24, 2014, 11:28 AM

My bad for assuming it was a pistol load.

Have you considered a different bullet?

Quote:

When loading the 125-grain cast bullet in .38 Special cases, overall length was much too short. As a result, my loads for the ’73 are crimped at the front of the grease groove rather than in the crimping groove, making overall length adequate for reliable feeding.

Interestingly, the 125-grain cast-bullet “cowboy” handload gave erratic accuracy, even though the chronograph showed quite low extreme spread and standard deviation numbers. As I mentioned earlier, I’m guessing the poor accuracy was due to the fairly long jump that the short little projectiles must make from the mouth of the .38 cases to the rifling leade. The issue would likely best be solved by either loading .38 cases with a heavier cast bullet that has a longer bearing surface or by loading the 125-grain cast bullets in .357 Magnum cases with a bulky, case-filling propellant like Trail Boss. (Unfortunately, I had neither the heavier cast bullets nor the Trail Boss powder on hand, so my theory is just that: a theory.)

Read more: http://www.shootingtimes.com/rifles/...#ixzz3BKL5bI13

August 22, 2014, 07:22 PM	#1
Lou765 Junior Member Join Date: August 22, 2014 Posts: 7	Wax on lead bullets ?? and Crimping on grease ring? I reload 125 gr lead FNRP bullets for CAS in .38 Spl and the bullets themselves always have a wax or greasy coating on them. What is it? What purpose does it serve? My loaded rounds seem to load in the gun(mag tube) easier if I wipe it all off but I am not sure if it serves a purpose or not. Also would like to know if its ok to crimp on the grease ring? Thank you

August 22, 2014, 09:29 PM	#2
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	don't crimp on the grease ring if its full of lube.....but if its just tumble lubed(that would be why they are waxy all over) then crimp wherever you want. pic please __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

August 23, 2014, 02:38 PM	#6
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	the only way I would see people crimping on the lube groove, is if another lube method was used or if it had multiple lube grooves like many .38spl do.. since all of your lube is in that one groove, your going to displace it by crimping into that groove and probably lose a lot of it on the brass rather than in the barrel where it belongs __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

August 23, 2014, 04:14 PM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	A .38 out of a revolver? No crimp at all for a revolver. Very light crimp for a lever action. Just enough to keep the bullet in place. Don't remove the lube. 125 RN's are kind of light for a .38 too. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 23, 2014, 11:01 PM	#9
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	dont concern yourself with oal too much on 38 special, unless your loading to near max pressures, which you wouldnt be with lead bullets anyways, your not going to hurt anything with a shorter oal, i have never had any feeding issues in a lever period, no matter what the oal is on 38 or 357. you could go too long for the chamber, but dont get too concerned with being a little short.what kind of powder and charge are you doing? __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

August 23, 2014, 12:03 PM	#4
Col. Mosby Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Location: Edinburg, Va. Posts: 74	Looking at your photo the crimp ring is not where the lube is. The crimp ring is above the lubed area at the base of the bullet's ogive. Not sure what the waxy coating is for sure, the bullets may have been tumbled lubed then sized and lubed as well. That blue lube should be all you need. If you were casting, sizing and lubing your own bullets, your lube would end up just where the blue lube is with just a little residue on the lead. Why do you feel the need for a longer cartridge? The MAXIMUM OAL for a .38 spc. cartridge w/ bullet is listed as 1.550 in my Lyman book. You may go shorter just not longer. Hope this helps some. If you are still worried about the waxy stuff, go straight to the manf. and ask. Sometimes as I am sure you know cyber advice can be incorrect.

August 23, 2014, 12:10 PM	#5
Col. Mosby Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Location: Edinburg, Va. Posts: 74	After the cartrige is loaded you may wipe any residue off of the bullet and case, it will not effect a thing, as the blue lube ring is encased in the case below the case mouth. If you do not use carbide sizing dies and lube your cases as a seperate step then you need to wipe of the cartridge anyway.

August 23, 2014, 08:00 PM	#8
Lou765 Junior Member Join Date: August 22, 2014 Posts: 7	Thanks for the replies. I ll stay above the grove for the crimp and wipe them off then.

August 24, 2014, 10:34 AM	#11
Lou765 Junior Member Join Date: August 22, 2014 Posts: 7	The reason the .38 OAL is important is because in Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) some lever action rifles run better at different OAL. We push these guns to the max trying to cycle 10 rounds in 2 or 3 sec and the OAL can determine how well a particular gun runs or doesn't run with that ammo. Thank you for the replies.