Training Video, why one-handed?

JJ45 · April 22, 2021, 05:36 PM

Looking at the thread on the 1911 training video it came back to me that in those days they were always one handed...more instinctive, no sights?

I really do wonder why. It doesn't seem possible, by that time, that know one found out that a two handed combat stance like the Weaver or Isoceles might be a lot more stable.

I should do more practicing one handed, no sights, purely instinctive....which I would probably do in a crises situation anyway

ballardw · April 22, 2021, 06:07 PM

I bet if you listen to film narrative you will find sights.
The "pistol" for the first couple hundred years of existence had no sights. The people who used them in combat were generally cavalry and for a very long time mostly using them to shoot at masses of troops in formation at what to us seems insanely short ranges. Cavalry would have one hand in use on reins to control the horse.

So there is a strong component of "that's the way it has been done" lingering on.

If my memory is correct it was actually Cavalry in the US Army involved in selecting the 1911 because they were the branch in charge of pistols. So you can see a history thread there.

Double Naught Spy · April 22, 2021, 06:59 PM

Why one handed? I don't know if it was being taught at the time, but for practical reasons, if you were using your pistol in combat, chances are you needed your other hand for other reasons. If you were down to your pistol, chances are your rifle was gone and the situation was poor. You needed the other hand to be holding onto or dragging a buddy to safety, to plug a wound, to control your horse, drive a vehicle, fend off an attacker, etc.

Shadow9mm · April 22, 2021, 07:54 PM

competition shooters still shoot 1 handed today. olympic and bullseye I believe. They probably focused more on accuracy than practicality.

TunnelRat · April 22, 2021, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

competition shooters still shoot 1 handed today. olympic and bullseye I believe. They probably focused more on accuracy than practicality.

Some competition shooters in those disciplines do yeah, many in other disciplines shoot with two. The average shooter is more accurate with both hands than one.

To the main question, that is how handguns were shot back then, with one hand (a hand gun, not a hands gun). When you think about handguns, for centuries a two handed grip wasn't always practical. You don't want your off hand near the priming pan and keeping as much distance as possible from the pan with your face was also a good idea. As pistols evolved not every pistol was a Browning tilting barrel short recoil affair and depending on the action type your support hand could be more a hindrance than a help (retarding the action). Reloads were also more involved (in terms of time and motion) and required a hand to hold the pistol for a longer period of time.

As far as I know that was "the way" for some time. Even the legal definition of pistol as it relates to the ATF talks about usage with one hand.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...inition-pistol

Mike38 · April 22, 2021, 08:53 PM

It's called a handgun, not a handsgun.

JJ45 · April 23, 2021, 04:16 AM

Good replies. Always enlightening.

Don P · April 23, 2021, 10:21 AM

Quote:

They probably focused more on accuracy than practicality.

Always a possibility of having either the strong hand or weak hand being injured and having only one lunch grabber able to handle the gun. So why not practice one hand shooting ?

TunnelRat · April 23, 2021, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don P

Always a possibility of having either the strong hand or weak hand being injured and having only one lunch grabber able to handle the gun. So why not practice one hand shooting ?

There’s a difference between practicing one handed shooting and shooting that way predominantly.

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jcj54 · April 23, 2021, 10:59 AM

One handed was the norm until around the late 1960's for defensive shooting.
The primary use for the military pistol was for cavalry, who had to use the other hand for the reins.

AK103K · April 23, 2021, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don P

Always a possibility of having either the strong hand or weak hand being injured and having only one lunch grabber able to handle the gun. So why not practice one hand shooting ?

I think one hand shooting should be a part of your regular practice.

Same goes for "point" or "unsighted" shooting. Its all a part/skill set of "shooting", and makes you a well rounded shooter.

I think a lot of people tend to base things on what they do in practice, and not what they actually might encounter in reality.

There are a couple of instances where you really dont have a choice and have to shoot one handed, no sights, etc, as you go, especially as you move and shoot.

gnystrom · April 23, 2021, 03:14 PM

I figure in a last minute surprise attack I will most likely be using one hand. I practice strong and weak hand every time I am at the range.

chris downs · April 23, 2021, 05:28 PM

A gun in each hand and reins between the teeth. Ned Pepper never had a chance.

ballardw · April 23, 2021, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris downs

A gun in each hand and reins between the teeth. Ned Pepper never had a chance.

But cavalry units sort of frown on such.

Shadow9mm · April 23, 2021, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

There’s a difference between practicing one handed shooting and shooting that way predominantly.

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My point was, in the past, ww1 and ww2 the US militaries training was focused heavily on accuracy to the exclusion of other things, like practical shooting positions and techniques.

TunnelRat · April 23, 2021, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

My point was, in the past, ww1 and ww2 the US militaries training was focused heavily on accuracy to the exclusion of other things, like practical shooting positions and techniques.

I don’t disagree that the US military was very focused on accurate almost competition shooting in that time period (you can look at the width of front sight blades on rifles for example), but I don’t think that’s why they were shooting one handed in that training video. Shooting one handed seems to have been the standard of the time. It wasn’t something unique to the US military (as far as I know).

Edit: it’s interesting that in the video that whenever they go to kneeling or prone they do shoot two handed. It’s really only standing and then the pseudo slouch they do that they shoot one handed.

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TunnelRat · April 23, 2021, 06:49 PM

I think there also might be a difference in mentality between the past and today when it comes to tactics. Blading your body to present the thinnest profile to the opposition was thought to be preferable for a long time. Now with many in the military and law enforcement wearing body armor you would want that armor facing the enemy and it’s generally the strongest and offers the most coverage from the front. Facing forward also allows you to get two hands on the pistol and generally have more control of the pistol.

Combat medics I’ve talked to have said that wounds received to your flanks are generally quite lethal, armor or not. When striking your side the round has the potential to go through multiple organs on its way through your body. No one wants to get shot, but straight to the chest hopefully minimizes the number or organs effected given the layout of our internal organs. Of course there are examples of bullets going on bizarre paths through the body as well, but at some point you make a choice based on the odds as you see them.

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OneFreeTexan · April 23, 2021, 08:00 PM

Just for ‘S&G’ a few years ago I started practicing, shoooting one hand from my waist. Started with a 22, got pretty good with it,,,then moved up to a 380 and practiced until I could put six shots, or ten onto a gong at 6 yards, then moved up to 9mm, and now shooting a 45 from my waist,.. I am am very satisfied with the accuracy,,,,,and besides it’s fun

April 22, 2021, 05:36 PM	#1
JJ45 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2015 Posts: 908	Training Video, why one-handed? Looking at the thread on the 1911 training video it came back to me that in those days they were always one handed...more instinctive, no sights? I really do wonder why. It doesn't seem possible, by that time, that know one found out that a two handed combat stance like the Weaver or Isoceles might be a lot more stable. I should do more practicing one handed, no sights, purely instinctive....which I would probably do in a crises situation anyway

April 22, 2021, 06:07 PM	#2
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	I bet if you listen to film narrative you will find sights. The "pistol" for the first couple hundred years of existence had no sights. The people who used them in combat were generally cavalry and for a very long time mostly using them to shoot at masses of troops in formation at what to us seems insanely short ranges. Cavalry would have one hand in use on reins to control the horse. So there is a strong component of "that's the way it has been done" lingering on. If my memory is correct it was actually Cavalry in the US Army involved in selecting the 1911 because they were the branch in charge of pistols. So you can see a history thread there. __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so. Last edited by ballardw; April 23, 2021 at 12:18 PM.

April 22, 2021, 06:59 PM	#3
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Why one handed? I don't know if it was being taught at the time, but for practical reasons, if you were using your pistol in combat, chances are you needed your other hand for other reasons. If you were down to your pistol, chances are your rifle was gone and the situation was poor. You needed the other hand to be holding onto or dragging a buddy to safety, to plug a wound, to control your horse, drive a vehicle, fend off an attacker, etc. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

April 22, 2021, 07:54 PM	#4
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,973	competition shooters still shoot 1 handed today. olympic and bullseye I believe. They probably focused more on accuracy than practicality. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

April 23, 2021, 10:59 AM	#10
jcj54 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2011 Posts: 218	One handed One handed was the norm until around the late 1960's for defensive shooting. The primary use for the military pistol was for cavalry, who had to use the other hand for the reins.

April 22, 2021, 08:53 PM	#6
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	It's called a handgun, not a handsgun.

April 23, 2021, 04:16 AM	#7
JJ45 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2015 Posts: 908	Good replies. Always enlightening.

April 23, 2021, 03:14 PM	#12
gnystrom Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 308	I figure in a last minute surprise attack I will most likely be using one hand. I practice strong and weak hand every time I am at the range.

April 23, 2021, 05:28 PM	#13
chris downs Member Join Date: January 6, 2005 Location: MO Posts: 91	A gun in each hand and reins between the teeth. Ned Pepper never had a chance.

April 23, 2021, 06:49 PM	#17
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	Training Video, why one-handed? I think there also might be a difference in mentality between the past and today when it comes to tactics. Blading your body to present the thinnest profile to the opposition was thought to be preferable for a long time. Now with many in the military and law enforcement wearing body armor you would want that armor facing the enemy and it’s generally the strongest and offers the most coverage from the front. Facing forward also allows you to get two hands on the pistol and generally have more control of the pistol. Combat medics I’ve talked to have said that wounds received to your flanks are generally quite lethal, armor or not. When striking your side the round has the potential to go through multiple organs on its way through your body. No one wants to get shot, but straight to the chest hopefully minimizes the number or organs effected given the layout of our internal organs. Of course there are examples of bullets going on bizarre paths through the body as well, but at some point you make a choice based on the odds as you see them. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; April 23, 2021 at 06:55 PM.

April 23, 2021, 08:00 PM	#18
OneFreeTexan Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: West, Texas Posts: 280	Just for ‘S&G’ a few years ago I started practicing, shoooting one hand from my waist. Started with a 22, got pretty good with it,,,then moved up to a 380 and practiced until I could put six shots, or ten onto a gong at 6 yards, then moved up to 9mm, and now shooting a 45 from my waist,.. I am am very satisfied with the accuracy,,,,,and besides it’s fun