Classic Lee Loader with a Semi-Auto

Ferretdog · April 21, 2018, 05:58 PM

I don't reload, but I'd like to. Don't have a lot of space, so I thought about getting a Classic Lee Loader - the one you use a mallet with.
I'd be reloading 9mm for a 92FS.
The 9mm kit says (all the kits say this)

"Please note: the Classic Lee Loader neck sizes only. This is not recommended for semi, pump and lever action guns."

Why would you be reloading 9mm for anything other than a semi?? How many bolt action 9mm are there? So, what's the point of the kit?

OR

Is it actually going to be ok and it's just covering its ass?
and
Since the 9mm is not a bottlenecked case the entire case will be sized anyway.

xandi · April 21, 2018, 07:22 PM

The 9x19 parabellum is not very economical to reload for
The lee loader will work, if the round will headspace right and you seated the primer right, might have feed problems. I have one in 357 mag, it works good enough for me a little slow though. Here’s the thing, they only size the neck so it probably works better for bottlenecked and rimmed cases.
You’ll need a scale too btw

TruthTellers · April 21, 2018, 08:01 PM

Those reloading dies made by Lee are only worth getting if you reload shotgun hulls. For anything else, they are a waste. You'd be better off getting the Lee hand press, that's what I started off with, but what drove me away from it was accurate powder measuring.

I was using a scale and weighing every powder charge. That took so much time, I finally decided to get the turret press Lee makes and the Auto Drum powder measure. Saves me so much time.

You don't have to get the reloading stand and turret press like I did. Originally, I was going to get the C frame Lee press and mount it to a small bookcase I have and do the mouth flare and powder drop operation on it, the resizing, bullet seating and crimping on the hand press. The C frame press is very light, so you can put it on most anything and it's a real press.

In your circumstances where a progressive press isn't a possibility, I wouldn't bother reloading 9mm unless you live in California and want to avoid ammo background checks.

xandi · April 21, 2018, 08:14 PM

Do they even still make those shotshell lee loaders?

Ferretdog · April 21, 2018, 08:32 PM

I'm in Australia where 9mm will set you back 40c per, so reloading is definitely economical.

I have a scale for reloading black powder shot shells.

They don't make the 12g kit any more, but I made one for myself with a nail, block of wood with a washer set into it, wooden dowel, and a roll crimper from ebay. Works great for loading shortened black powder shells for my antique 12g.

lee n. field · April 21, 2018, 08:33 PM

Quote:

"Please note: the Classic Lee Loader neck sizes only. This is not recommended for semi, pump and lever action guns."

For a straight wall case, it is going to full length size.

Mike38 · April 21, 2018, 08:38 PM

Consider something along the lines of a Lee Challenger single stage press. I reload 6 different calibers, and every thing is on a table that measures 3x2 feet. Everything, press, boxes of dies, scale, etc. The powder and primers I keep on a shelf in a cloths closet.

I shoot more than the average person probably does. Enough that I should consider a progressive press. Probably 400 rounds of centerfire a month. I've had my Lee Challenger for 20 years now. So if you're only going to reload for one gun, a Challenger press should last a lifetime.

riverrat38 · April 21, 2018, 09:11 PM

I use a small RCBS Partner press bolted to a 36mm thick plywood "plank" that I can put in a bench vice, or clamp to a table top. It works fine for 357 MGN and 44 SPL cartridges. Doesn't take up too much space for storage when I am using the bench for wood work.
I used a Lee Loader to learn on, and it made good revolver ammo, but took longer. There is a video of Richard Lee using the Lee Loader, and he can make a box of 50 rounds in under an hour. I couldn't!

Best,
Rick

xandi · April 21, 2018, 09:28 PM

Wow I’m surprised at .40$ it’s becomes easy to justify reloading for 9
If the lee loader isn’t a lot you could give it a chance
Or just go lee hand press and dies

PPGMD · April 21, 2018, 09:32 PM

If you are looking to reload to just say "Hey look what I can do..." then go for it. But IMO reloading 9mm as your primary source without at least a progressive reloading machine takes more time than it is worth IMO.

Just think how much is your time worth? Even with my Dillon with bulletfeeder and such, there isn't enough cost savings for me to reload any 9mm but match ammo. So if I am just going to shoot a gun for fun I just buy my 9mm.

ETA: I noticed you said you were in Australia. That means you are in a club, have you considered asking some of your fellow club members if you could use their reloading machine? I am sure that more than a few of them own a nice reloading machine and will teach you how to use it.

Also I don't know how it is in Australia, but in New Zealand I remember powder and primers being extremely expensive. Like 3 times the price of what I pay retail, and probably 5 times what I would pay for my bulk orders.

Ferretdog · April 21, 2018, 11:07 PM

As for space, I live on a yacht. A 3x2foot bench might be fine in your house or garage ... around there that's my dining table size. That's why I was interested in something so compact.

I get get reloaded ammo from the club at about half retail, done by one of the members, but if I can do my own for half that again ...

As for volume, I shoot about 100 rounds a week on average. Some weeks more like 400.

TruthTellers · April 21, 2018, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xandi

Do they even still make those shotshell lee loaders?

No, which is a shame because they're the ones that are worth having. I bought a 12 gauge set off someone on this forum. Can't say I've used it yet, but I'm glad to have it.

While the method Ferretdog uses will work, the reason I bought the Lee loader was that it does a star crimp, not a roll crimp. I bought the set not just for 12 gauge, but because I wanted to measure it and make a separate tool for making my own Aguila minishells.

Ferretdog · April 22, 2018, 12:57 AM

On the Lee website it says more than any of the listings for the loader I've seen.

"The Lee Loader neck sizes only, use only with brass fired through your gun. You can reload a round in 30 seconds.
..
This tool full length sizes the 9mm Luger and 45 ACP."

So that answers one question - it (logically) full length resizes.
And only use your own brass - that's interesting.

std7mag · April 22, 2018, 06:32 AM

Ferret,
If you are neck sizing only, you would really only want to do it for your rifles.
I load for several others, and unfortunately they are known to pick up others range brass. One even tried telling me that the three 30-03 casings were from his 06'.

mikld · April 22, 2018, 10:57 AM

Straight walled handgun cases are full length sized by a Lee Loader. Bottle neck cases are neck sized only. I have 6 Lee Loaders and for my hand guns sizing I lube the brass.

I'm a Lee Loader fan and got my first one in '69. I now have several presses (from old "C" style to a turret to a Co-Ax) and occasionally I'll get one out and pound out a few rounds. Some will tell you they are crude, slow and inaccurate. Mr. Lee has a youtube video of him reloading a bottlenecked cartridge in less than 50 seconds, and once you get used to the tool and get set up, you can load 50-100 rounds at one setting easily (I started with a 24" log on the floor of my garage as an "anvil" and pounded on that. I had a TV tray with components beside me). A 1,000 yard record for smallest group was held by a shooter that used a Lee Loader.

I think the Lee Loader is the best thing to come around since smokeless powder...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

T. O'Heir · April 22, 2018, 12:12 PM

For a straight wall case the Lee warning doesn't apply. There's no neck to size. You'll find that warning in any Lee Loader box.
The biggest disadvantage to using one for 9mm is the time it takes. And those daft scoops(calibrated in a metric unit of liquid volume) can vary the powder charge plus or minus a full grain. Deprime, size and seat with the Loader, but use a scale for the powder.
"...reload a round in 30 seconds..." Marketing BS.
"...neck sizing only..." You cannot load for any firearm but the one the cases were fired out of originally. You cannot use the ammo in a semi-auto, lever or pump rifle either.

Marco Califo · April 22, 2018, 01:48 PM

Quote:

And those daft scoops(calibrated in a metric unit of liquid volume) can vary the powder charge plus or minus a full grain.

Highly opinionated, unsupported, and FALSE.

The scoops are VOLUME MEASURES in cubic centimeters (CC). That is a metric unit used in Canada

and Europe. The U.S. also uses volume units like Cubic Yards of sand or gravel. Lee and many powder makers publish Volumetric Measure Density (VMD) in "CC's".
https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf
https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/AP1704.pdf
http://www.accuratepowder.com/produc...3&product=2460
http://www.ramshot.com/products/rifl...=4&product=TAC
Alliant will provide VMD on request:
"Alliant Reloading <[email protected]>
The VMD for BE-86 is 0.088. the grams/cc is 0.75.
Thanks,
Duane V.
Technical Services Rep
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
2299 Snake River Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
1-800-379-1732"

Using the scoops successfully requires a scale to check your technique, and practice, to achieve consistent loads. They may not yield a displayed indicated weight (which may be off more than 1/10th on electronic scales) within 1/10 of a grain. But, they will, with care and practice, in my experience, yield consistent results within 2/10ths of a grain verified with a beam scale, which I have found usable for 40SW, and even 9mm (where I back off a little more from max.). In a pinch, this is suitable for 223 and 308 with the same care.
My complaint about the scoops is that they are not adjustable between the sizes supplied, except by adjustments to technique. Specifically, using a straight edge to level the top, versus using a rounded or heaping scoop will vary the charge down or up, respectively as YOU control and verify by weighing.
Lee is innovative, and cost conscious, produces some excellent products, and some sot so excellent. But an oaf can make anything not work, or work improperly. If you are all thumbs, lack attention to detail, or are otherwise challenged, then scoops are not for you. For that matter, reloading may not be for you.
I have received scoops (one at a time) with Lee dies.
I recently purchased a box of the complete set, but have not used the set yet.

robhic · April 22, 2018, 03:52 PM

I got a 9mm and a .45acp set about a year and a half ago. Wanted to try it and it does work. However, speed is not a component as far as I was concerned.

You have to de-cap the empties (not always as easy as it might seem...), then using the loader it will make a tidy cartridge that will shoot fine. But you probably should take your time for safety's sake.

I had a few that kept putting the bullet in crooked. It got to be a pain and while some say you can make 50 rds an hour, I wasn't one of those people. And that is AFTER you remove the old primers (as above).

I bought an RCBS 'Rock Chucker' about 3 months later and haven't looked back. The Lee Loader will work and reasonably well. It has its place, but, if you're like me, you'll soon tire of decapping over a garbage can and making every, single round with a mallet. It gets old, quickly.

My opinion/experience only, but I'm just sayin'....

Ferretdog · April 22, 2018, 04:38 PM

Quote:

That is a metric unit used in Canada and Europe.

Metric is used everywhere in the world except a small number of archaic places that you can literally count on one hand.

Given the scoop is a static size, it doesn't really matter what measurement unit is used for that size - it just is what it is. It is either the right size (in which case who cares what the unit it) or it's not (ditto).

I ordered a classic kit.
I looked at the hand press, but it didn't seem to have many advantages and looked pretty awkward, and you have to buy dies, and keep changing them over ... might as well find space to mount a real press on a bit of wood. One day perhaps I can make space for a press. For now I'll use the table in the cockpit and a mallet.

GTOne · April 22, 2018, 06:38 PM

I try to find the whack hammer loaders for every caliber I own, just because. It is a rainy day thing.
If one was one of those prepper types something like the 9mm kit, a small bottle of powder, flat of primers and a handful of bullets and brass could get you a ways if you needed.
But I'd rather carry a couple hundred rounds of 22lr and my colt frontier SA revolver for sustenance survival.

Too bad the shot shell ones are long out of production, and they are expensive on ebay most of the time. I shop for a 12 and 20ga occasionally, but no luck yet.

Ferretdog · April 22, 2018, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Too bad the shot shell ones are long out of production

i can show you the kit I made myself for shotshells if you want. 12g are easier, as there is no resizing, etc. My shells come out nicely with just a few bits and pieces.

PPGMD · April 23, 2018, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferretdog

Given the scoop is a static size, it doesn't really matter what measurement unit is used for that size - it just is what it is. It is either the right size (in which case who cares what the unit it) or it's not (ditto).

Volumetric measurements are problematic for powders. And really should only be used for liquids.

LBussy · April 23, 2018, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PPGMD

Volumetric measurements are problematic for powders. And really should only be used for liquids.

How, exactly, do you think traditional powder throws work?

mikld · April 23, 2018, 11:36 AM

FWIW; I used dippers, both Lee and home made for quite a while and occasionally now when I'm just reloading a few. With some powders (W231) I can hold about .1 variation when I'm on a roll, the key being to do the same thing every time; same speed, same method, same way I hold my tongue. With some powders (IMR 4064) my repeatability ain't so hot, but I don't often go over .3 gr.. If I concentrate and comfortable and am rolling along, consistent charges aren't no big challenge. Of course I weigh every charge I dip...

Jes wonderin', if volume powder measuring/charging is superior, why is every reloading manual I've seen list their powder charges by weight?

jimbob86 · April 23, 2018, 12:07 PM

Some powders work well with the dippers.

IME, flake powders do not. I've had one really bad experience with Unique in 9mm.....

Long extruded powders don't work really great, either, but it can be done, provided you do the same thing every time. I have done many pounds of 4064 with dippers.

Ball powders work best with the dippers, IME.

View Poll Results: Can I use a Classic Lee Loader with a 92FS?
Yeah, it will work ok (most of the time).	11	57.89%
No, it's a waste of time.	8	42.11%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

April 21, 2018, 05:58 PM	#1
Ferretdog Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2018 Posts: 12	Classic Lee Loader with a Semi-Auto I don't reload, but I'd like to. Don't have a lot of space, so I thought about getting a Classic Lee Loader - the one you use a mallet with. I'd be reloading 9mm for a 92FS. The 9mm kit says (all the kits say this) "Please note: the Classic Lee Loader neck sizes only. This is not recommended for semi, pump and lever action guns." Why would you be reloading 9mm for anything other than a semi?? How many bolt action 9mm are there? So, what's the point of the kit? OR Is it actually going to be ok and it's just covering its ass? and Since the 9mm is not a bottlenecked case the entire case will be sized anyway. Last edited by Ferretdog; April 21, 2018 at 06:09 PM.

April 21, 2018, 08:01 PM	#3
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	Those reloading dies made by Lee are only worth getting if you reload shotgun hulls. For anything else, they are a waste. You'd be better off getting the Lee hand press, that's what I started off with, but what drove me away from it was accurate powder measuring. I was using a scale and weighing every powder charge. That took so much time, I finally decided to get the turret press Lee makes and the Auto Drum powder measure. Saves me so much time. You don't have to get the reloading stand and turret press like I did. Originally, I was going to get the C frame Lee press and mount it to a small bookcase I have and do the mouth flare and powder drop operation on it, the resizing, bullet seating and crimping on the hand press. The C frame press is very light, so you can put it on most anything and it's a real press. In your circumstances where a progressive press isn't a possibility, I wouldn't bother reloading 9mm unless you live in California and want to avoid ammo background checks. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

April 21, 2018, 09:32 PM	#10
PPGMD Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Posts: 348	If you are looking to reload to just say "Hey look what I can do..." then go for it. But IMO reloading 9mm as your primary source without at least a progressive reloading machine takes more time than it is worth IMO. Just think how much is your time worth? Even with my Dillon with bulletfeeder and such, there isn't enough cost savings for me to reload any 9mm but match ammo. So if I am just going to shoot a gun for fun I just buy my 9mm. ETA: I noticed you said you were in Australia. That means you are in a club, have you considered asking some of your fellow club members if you could use their reloading machine? I am sure that more than a few of them own a nice reloading machine and will teach you how to use it. Also I don't know how it is in Australia, but in New Zealand I remember powder and primers being extremely expensive. Like 3 times the price of what I pay retail, and probably 5 times what I would pay for my bulk orders. Last edited by PPGMD; April 21, 2018 at 09:41 PM.

April 22, 2018, 10:57 AM	#15
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Straight walled handgun cases are full length sized by a Lee Loader. Bottle neck cases are neck sized only. I have 6 Lee Loaders and for my hand guns sizing I lube the brass. I'm a Lee Loader fan and got my first one in '69. I now have several presses (from old "C" style to a turret to a Co-Ax) and occasionally I'll get one out and pound out a few rounds. Some will tell you they are crude, slow and inaccurate. Mr. Lee has a youtube video of him reloading a bottlenecked cartridge in less than 50 seconds, and once you get used to the tool and get set up, you can load 50-100 rounds at one setting easily (I started with a 24" log on the floor of my garage as an "anvil" and pounded on that. I had a TV tray with components beside me). A 1,000 yard record for smallest group was held by a shooter that used a Lee Loader. I think the Lee Loader is the best thing to come around since smokeless powder... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

April 21, 2018, 07:22 PM	#2
xandi Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2015 Location: ga Posts: 321	The 9x19 parabellum is not very economical to reload for The lee loader will work, if the round will headspace right and you seated the primer right, might have feed problems. I have one in 357 mag, it works good enough for me a little slow though. Here’s the thing, they only size the neck so it probably works better for bottlenecked and rimmed cases. You’ll need a scale too btw

April 21, 2018, 08:14 PM	#4
xandi Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2015 Location: ga Posts: 321	Do they even still make those shotshell lee loaders?

April 21, 2018, 08:32 PM	#5
Ferretdog Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2018 Posts: 12	I'm in Australia where 9mm will set you back 40c per, so reloading is definitely economical. I have a scale for reloading black powder shot shells. They don't make the 12g kit any more, but I made one for myself with a nail, block of wood with a washer set into it, wooden dowel, and a roll crimper from ebay. Works great for loading shortened black powder shells for my antique 12g.

April 21, 2018, 08:38 PM	#7
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Consider something along the lines of a Lee Challenger single stage press. I reload 6 different calibers, and every thing is on a table that measures 3x2 feet. Everything, press, boxes of dies, scale, etc. The powder and primers I keep on a shelf in a cloths closet. I shoot more than the average person probably does. Enough that I should consider a progressive press. Probably 400 rounds of centerfire a month. I've had my Lee Challenger for 20 years now. So if you're only going to reload for one gun, a Challenger press should last a lifetime.

April 21, 2018, 09:11 PM	#8
riverrat38 Member Join Date: January 24, 2012 Location: La Conner, WA Posts: 69	I use a small RCBS Partner press bolted to a 36mm thick plywood "plank" that I can put in a bench vice, or clamp to a table top. It works fine for 357 MGN and 44 SPL cartridges. Doesn't take up too much space for storage when I am using the bench for wood work. I used a Lee Loader to learn on, and it made good revolver ammo, but took longer. There is a video of Richard Lee using the Lee Loader, and he can make a box of 50 rounds in under an hour. I couldn't! Best, Rick

April 21, 2018, 09:28 PM	#9
xandi Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2015 Location: ga Posts: 321	Wow I’m surprised at .40$ it’s becomes easy to justify reloading for 9 If the lee loader isn’t a lot you could give it a chance Or just go lee hand press and dies

April 21, 2018, 11:07 PM	#11
Ferretdog Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2018 Posts: 12	As for space, I live on a yacht. A 3x2foot bench might be fine in your house or garage ... around there that's my dining table size. That's why I was interested in something so compact. I get get reloaded ammo from the club at about half retail, done by one of the members, but if I can do my own for half that again ... As for volume, I shoot about 100 rounds a week on average. Some weeks more like 400.

April 22, 2018, 12:57 AM	#13
Ferretdog Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2018 Posts: 12	On the Lee website it says more than any of the listings for the loader I've seen. "The Lee Loader neck sizes only, use only with brass fired through your gun. You can reload a round in 30 seconds. .. This tool full length sizes the 9mm Luger and 45 ACP." So that answers one question - it (logically) full length resizes. And only use your own brass - that's interesting.

April 22, 2018, 06:32 AM	#14
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Ferret, If you are neck sizing only, you would really only want to do it for your rifles. I load for several others, and unfortunately they are known to pick up others range brass. One even tried telling me that the three 30-03 casings were from his 06'.

April 22, 2018, 12:12 PM	#16
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	For a straight wall case the Lee warning doesn't apply. There's no neck to size. You'll find that warning in any Lee Loader box. The biggest disadvantage to using one for 9mm is the time it takes. And those daft scoops(calibrated in a metric unit of liquid volume) can vary the powder charge plus or minus a full grain. Deprime, size and seat with the Loader, but use a scale for the powder. "...reload a round in 30 seconds..." Marketing BS. "...neck sizing only..." You cannot load for any firearm but the one the cases were fired out of originally. You cannot use the ammo in a semi-auto, lever or pump rifle either. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

April 22, 2018, 03:52 PM	#18
robhic Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2016 Location: Outside of New Orleans, LA. Posts: 313	I got a 9mm and a .45acp set about a year and a half ago. Wanted to try it and it does work. However, speed is not a component as far as I was concerned. You have to de-cap the empties (not always as easy as it might seem...), then using the loader it will make a tidy cartridge that will shoot fine. But you probably should take your time for safety's sake. I had a few that kept putting the bullet in crooked. It got to be a pain and while some say you can make 50 rds an hour, I wasn't one of those people. And that is AFTER you remove the old primers (as above). I bought an RCBS 'Rock Chucker' about 3 months later and haven't looked back. The Lee Loader will work and reasonably well. It has its place, but, if you're like me, you'll soon tire of decapping over a garbage can and making every, single round with a mallet. It gets old, quickly. My opinion/experience only, but I'm just sayin'.... __________________ - Robert

April 22, 2018, 06:38 PM	#20
GTOne Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2011 Location: IL Posts: 210	I try to find the whack hammer loaders for every caliber I own, just because. It is a rainy day thing. If one was one of those prepper types something like the 9mm kit, a small bottle of powder, flat of primers and a handful of bullets and brass could get you a ways if you needed. But I'd rather carry a couple hundred rounds of 22lr and my colt frontier SA revolver for sustenance survival. Too bad the shot shell ones are long out of production, and they are expensive on ebay most of the time. I shop for a 12 and 20ga occasionally, but no luck yet.

April 23, 2018, 11:36 AM	#24
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	FWIW; I used dippers, both Lee and home made for quite a while and occasionally now when I'm just reloading a few. With some powders (W231) I can hold about .1 variation when I'm on a roll, the key being to do the same thing every time; same speed, same method, same way I hold my tongue. With some powders (IMR 4064) my repeatability ain't so hot, but I don't often go over .3 gr.. If I concentrate and comfortable and am rolling along, consistent charges aren't no big challenge. Of course I weigh every charge I dip... Jes wonderin', if volume powder measuring/charging is superior, why is every reloading manual I've seen list their powder charges by weight? __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

April 23, 2018, 12:07 PM	#25
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Some powders work well with the dippers. IME, flake powders do not. I've had one really bad experience with Unique in 9mm..... Long extruded powders don't work really great, either, but it can be done, provided you do the same thing every time. I have done many pounds of 4064 with dippers. Ball powders work best with the dippers, IME.