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June 19, 2017, 11:54 AM | #26 | |||
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Join Date: November 6, 2004
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 555
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Getting back to the OP-
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I wish I could find it back now, but I'm pretty sure it was Otis McDonald (of the famous McDonald vs. Chicago Supreme Court Case) who talked about getting his guns confiscated. He said the police showed up at his door with a list of every gun he'd ever bought. Note that they were not tracing the serial number of a particular gun(s) like others have mentioned in this thread. It's possible he only ever bought anything from 1 or 2 gun shops, so maybe they followed his form 4473's and subpoenaed all the records from those shops. I don't know. But he was convinced they had a secret registration database, and even if he was technically wrong, does it really matter if they can track down everything you own within a couple days? Something similar was published on the Firearm Blog: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...06/run-in-atf/ Quote:
In Illinois we have the FOID card, so they pretty much know you've got guns. The issue is whether they know about that last particular item hidden under the floorboards. And if it ever comes to that, I would not want to involve a "shooting buddy" in the mess. Think about what you'd be asking of him, if authorities ever came knocking and demanded to know who he helped build guns. No, I'd much rather just buy a ready-built gun off a stranger with no paperwork, or build something completely on my own that no one else knows about. |
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June 19, 2017, 12:41 PM | #27 | |
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Join Date: December 2, 2013
Posts: 975
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June 19, 2017, 07:15 PM | #28 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
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Im busy this week, but if I have time next week I will send a request for clarification to ATFE in regard to borrowing tools.
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June 19, 2017, 10:38 PM | #29 | |||
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Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,993
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Quote:
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https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/...tion-reporting
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Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
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June 20, 2017, 01:13 AM | #30 |
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Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,846
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One thing to keep in mind is that the information on the 4473 that links a gun to you by serial # is NOT given to the federal govt to put in a database, they have to go LOOK for it.
Your state may have their own rules but that's your state. Your state may hand over the information to the Fed, I have no idea, but I would expect that the Fed would have to request it. No instant background check over the phone by an FFL that I have been involved with has EVER given the gun serial#. Your/my personal info (DOB, address etc) and either "handgun or long gun". Only that, never the gun serial #. SO, the Fed knows you bought a gun, and they know if its a handgun, or not. And that's it. For further info, they have to go LOOK at the dealers PHYSICAL records. They have to go the shop and look at the papers. They can, and do this, easily enough, if they have a reason. But they don't get to just push a button and get a list of what you bought by serial #. However, once they HAVE that list, I think they would save it, somewhere they can get it with a push of a button, or mouseclick. I find the information about how the Fed is ruling on what tools you can use to build your own gun to be ....entertaining, and you know the only reason they even exist now is because of idiots baiting the Fed with the whole "ghost gun" foolishness. Foolishness, because we were fine, and largely left alone by the ATF if we were only making firearms for personal use. The only real concern was how many one could make before the Fed felt you needed a manufacturer's license. The Fed didn't care WHO'S tools you used, only if you were doing it for sale or not. Of course, this was also in the days when you had to have machine tool operating skills, or a LOT of determination and patience with a file. Emotional children, discovering the tech that let them make (SOME) gun parts via a 3d printer, dancing and capering about (on the internet, particularly) with tongues stuck out, thumbs in their ears wiggling their fingers at the ATF and chanting "neener neener, we can make ghost guns!" was a rather STUPID thing to do, in my opinion. THANKS SO MUCH, fellahs. If you're doing it for the joy of building your own gun, fine. Wonderful, even. If you're doing it so its not registered to you, (check your LOCAL laws carefully, as well!) it seems to me that it would be simpler, and maybe cheaper to just buy a used gun from a private seller. (where legal) There are still many places in the country where its not only still legal, but encouraged. Sadly not as many as there used to be...
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June 20, 2017, 11:51 AM | #31 |
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Join Date: April 12, 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,048
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Hmm the reporting of multiple rifles I think started back in fast 'n furious.. which is kinda ironic since the ATF was the one pushing dealers to sale even when they thought something was wrong.
But I thought the number was 4 or so. not 2.. but damn. Kinda ridiculous I've bought multiple guns at a time, heck I've bought multiple of the SAME gun at the same time.. sometimes when you find a god deal you just gotta get more then one. Even though they'd be exempt how many people who went in to buy a mosin when they was 50-60 bucks bought several at once? I bet a lot of owners did that. Imagine couples buying multiple of the same gun so they have "pairs".. and they see that as a sign of trafficking? way too low a number to indicate that imo. |
June 20, 2017, 12:32 PM | #32 |
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Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,846
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The ATF requirement for FFL dealers reporting multiple same day sales (and anything more than ONE is "multiple) goes back well before "fast & furious".
Yes, the idea is to help them spot traffickers, particularly the kind that buys several guns at one shop, and does the same thing at the shop across town the next week. Guys that buy 3 or 4 ONCE, or once or twice a year, aren't the people they are looking for, but to find the ones they are looking for, they need all the data to sort through.
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All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
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