North American Arms = GARBAGE!

[Lohman446]

I think given how often this has happened, I will contact NAA and make them fix it and replace the screw and sideplate that's all scratched up now.

Does a competent gun-smith normally scratch up a gun?

[Bob Wright]

V-fib said:

Mr. Wright with all due respect do you have a NAA mini? If not why would you comment on something you don't have? You are Wright (pun intended) they are not a target guns, though some shooters I've seen on youtube were very proficient at shooting them at long distances. However I'm not one of them. I do practice with mine as a backup at a couple of yards with CCI stingers. I 'm able to routinely hit the head and neck (silhouette target) and at that range enough to stop a BG from harming me and able to get away. In fact I read an article about a nurse on his way to work one morning accosted my two thugs one of which was on top of him beating the living daylights out of him. He was able to pull his NAA mini out and killed the thug. Another thing, the grips that come with the NAA mini are much too small. I would recommend anyone getting one to add the clip grip. It's night and day more useful than the original grips.

Well, no, i don't own one. But that is not to say I'm inexperienced with them. Several years ago my hunting companion, Cecil Vick, now deceased, won one of those little things in some kind of drawing. We took it out several times on our hunting escapades and shot the little thing. First time I fired one I learned very quickly to keep my thumb from riding high as I normally do. My thumb extended past the barrel/cylinder gap and got burned and stained with that grey/blue deposit. We learned to hold that little gun between the thumb and forefinger of one hand and press the trigger with the forefinger of the off hand.

At that time, there were no other grips for them, as now. The thing made quite a bark when fired and would completely bury the bullet into the soil if fired at our feet.

The gun was a very pretty affair, with contrasting polished and sandblasted surfaces, and those black grips.

Again, I stand by my original statement of there being better choices for the purpose intended. I still put it in the novelty class.

Bob Wright

P.S. I do not, and never have, considered them "garbage." The ones I've seen and handled were put together like a Swiss watch. While I've had experience with them, never put one to a high round count test. Just bean can shooting only.

[JoeSixpack]

I don't have a NAA, never owned one, never fired one, never wanted one.
I've met a lot of people who like them, some who have carried them in a pocket for 20 years.

I once had an argument with someone where I said I'd rather have a good fix blade knife in a SD situation vs one of those tiny revolvers, Im not that skilled with a knife and looking back I was probably stupid for taking that stance.
I just couldn't at the time see them as anything but novelty.

This is the first time I've really heard anything bad about the build quality of the guns.

Originally Posted by Lohman446

Does a competent gun-smith normally scratch up a gun?

Not usually, Not if they take their time and take precautions.
I've put plenty of scratches on my guns, I do not consider my self a gunsmith though.. I just work on my own.
But I know every time I've had a Oops moment it's because either.

1. I rushed and didn't protect the area I was working on.
2. was not fully understanding the correct to install/remove a part EX: pulling pins on springs which then "pop" and scratch something.
3. I did not have the exact correct tool for the job and did it anyway.

A good smith shouldn't be running into any of those 3 problems.

[TailGator]

The reason I branded the entire company as garbage is because most of what they make is the same thing, just in different sizes. The base design of the hand, spring, hammer, etc. remains the same throughout all the models, meaning that more than likely, this issue can affect EVERY model that NAA makes of the mini revolver.

And yet your problem is at most unusual, and at worst unique.

If a company has a rare problem, and acts to correct it when it happens (which you haven't given them the chance to do), the company isn't "garbage." What do you do for a living? Do you have a career 100% success rate, or did you ever, ever, ever need a second go at something?

[Cheapshooter]

Why don't you get your gun fixed, instead of proclaiming all of them are garbage?

YES!!!

I'm going to send it in if I can't get the hand spring to function properly. It's possible that the groove in the hammer or the groove in the hand where the spring goes could have been cut too deep or shallow and even the slightest amount of force exerted on the hand will pop the spring out.

BINGO!!!!
From my own experience with NAA Mini Revolvers they are a quality built firearm. In fact I will be adding more to my collection. I started out with the miniest of Minis. The 22 short. But I also want a long rifle version, and a dedicated 22WMR. All in the original style, not the enlarged, ovetsized grip, or swomg out design.

[Carmady]

This is the third or fourth time I've had to...

I'd just send it back without attempting to fix it. When the same problem crops up 3 or 4 times that's a good indication that there's a reason. Let NAA investigate and fix their own boo-boo.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Lohman446

Does a competent gun-smith normally scratch up a gun?

I'm not a gunsmith. When I first had to fix the issue, I didn't know the screw was a left hand thread, which is another stupid thing NAA did. Left hand threads...

[fastbolt]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

^ I'm going to send it in if I can't get the hand spring to function properly. It's possible that the groove in the hammer or the groove in the hand where the spring goes could have been cut too deep or shallow and even the slightest amount of force exerted on the hand will pop the spring out.

I think given how often this has happened, I will contact NAA and make them fix it and replace the screw and sideplate that's all scratched up now.

I agree that NAA ought to be able to figure out if there's a manufacturing defect with your gun regarding the hammer, hand and hand spring (or whatever). Doubt you'll have to "make them" do anything, as they'll probably be glad to be helpful for an owner of their product.

However ...

It's not really fair to think to hold them responsible for your actions which scratched up or otherwise damaged the sideplate.

Not saying they can't or won't be able to fit a new one, but I'd ask nicely and consider it a courtesy on their part if they agreed to either not charge you for it, or only charge their internal cost.

You might bear in mind the limitations of the gun when it comes to its design, intended usage, how to remove/replace the cylinder, manipulate it, etc. (As with any firearm)

Let us know what the company says.

[fastbolt]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I'm not a gunsmith. When I first had to fix the issue, I didn't know the screw was a left hand thread, which is another stupid thing NAA did. Left hand threads...

You do realize S&W has been using that sort of thread for their revolver extractors/rods for some decades, right? There's usually a reason why engineers design things in certain ways.

Now, when it comes to the tapered gas block pins on S&W AR's being installed/removed in the opposite directions as on a Colt (so you have to realize the directions on some armorer blocks have to be reversed) ... ... or SIG deciding that their dovetailed sights are going to be removed/installed in the opposite directions of other major pistol designs, etc, etc.

Then, there's how new solid state radios look different inside than my old transistor radios.

Must be a conspiracy.

[Bill DeShivs]

The left hand threads are there to make sure the screw doesn't loosen from firing.
That's not stupid.
However......

[RJay]

Odd that, poor guy really must have gotten a bad one . I guess Must have gotten a couple good ones. Like some others I have played with mine, I like to shoot shorts ( when I can find them or CB shorts or longs in my little revolver. Ihave been guilty of carrying it concealed ( when I had to carry what ever I had in very deep concealment because of job requirements ) . My other NAA is their .32 auto, never any problems with it either. My only real problem is that I keep buying different grips and holsters for them

[Pezo]

I have one. If you don't dryfire and just shoot live ammo at the range they should be good. I broke mine under warranty by dry firing the c---p out of it with with the cylinder out. I knew enough not to dry fire with the cylinder in it. NAA fixed it free. It's rugged for its size but not like it's a ruger size
.22 mag even out of 1" barrel will put a hurt on a bad guy

[James K]

"...it's obviously easier for you to call names than to try to find a solution."

No disrespect to anyone, but IMHO, it is not up to the customer to "find a solution" to a design flaw, it is up to the manufacturer to either correct a problem or offer a reasonable explanation for it (assembly error by the customer, for example).

Jim

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Pezo

I have one. If you don't dryfire and just shoot live ammo at the range they should be good. I broke mine under warranty by dry firing the c---p out of it with with the cylinder out. I knew enough not to dry fire with the cylinder in it. NAA fixed it free. It's rugged for its size but not like it's a ruger size
.22 mag even out of 1" barrel will put a hurt on a bad guy

I've dry fired it a decent amount, but I put snap caps in them when I did.

[khegglie]

Truth Teller..did you use the little plastic rimfire snap caps?
They don't seem to hold up well for me with prolonged use.

I got the hammer spring bolloxed in a Mini Master I had ( my fault ).
Put I got quick and helpful service from NAA.

They refurbed a Black Widow that needed the new spring locked cylinder pin.
They sent me free retaining pin clips for my ..32ACP.

They fitted my Black Widow for a 22lr cylinder during its refurb.

They have good customer service and should be able to straighten out your MM for you.

Good Luck!

[Lohman446]

I'm not a gunsmith

So to be clear the concern is a repeated failure after one decided not to return the firearm to the manufacturer to see if there was a remedy OR use a qualified gunsmith to inspect it for the cause of failure and this singular example is reason to pronounce an entire product line with a good history as garbage?

[Lohman446]

No disrespect to anyone, but IMHO, it is not up to the customer to "find a solution" to a design flaw, it is up to the manufacturer to either correct a problem or offer a reasonable explanation for it (assembly error by the customer, for example).

With a design flaw perhaps you are right about where the onerous lies but we are discussing a single example in a product line that has sold countless examples (ok I'm sure someone has a count). It is entirely possible the manufacture is not even aware of this singular example.

Is it handy to have defective example? No. But you surely cannot blame the manufacturer in a circumstance where they were likely not even made aware of the concern. The fact that the OP, who readily admits he is not qualified, has had to fix it three or four times is not indicative of a deeper problem.

[45_auto]

Originally Posted by James K

No disrespect to anyone, but IMHO, it is not up to the customer to "find a solution" to a design flaw, it is up to the manufacturer to either correct a problem or offer a reasonable explanation for it (assembly error by the customer, for example).

I would agree if there was a design flaw. However, my experience with NAA has been that they freely and speedily "corrected" something that was not even a design flaw in the first place. In the case of an actual design flaw, I would expect an immediate recall.

As I stated earlier, I have an early NAA 22LR that had the original un-notched cylinder. No big deal, not a design flaw, I simply carried it in my shirt pocket with the hammer down on an empty chamber. They later modified the design to include notches in the cylinder that allow you to carry the little guns fully loaded with the hammer down in a notch between the rounds. NAA replaced the cylinder on my gun at no charge with the latest version, sent me a free pair of very nice grips, and returned the gun next day delivery.

See NAA Customer Service here about at the bottom of the page:

https://northamericanarms.com/customer-service/

If you have an older model NAA Mini-Revolver, or know someone who does, please check to see if it is equipped with the NAA Safety Cylinder – if not please call at 800-821-5783 to find out how to update the gun to the new cylinder.

NAA Mini-Revolvers come with a Lifetime Warranty. If anything should ever go wrong with your Mini-Revolver, please call Customer Support to find out how to send the gun to us for repair.

I have no doubt that if there was any problem of substance with the guns that they have been making for over 25 years they would act immediately to correct it.

I've bought a lot of guns, cars, boats, airplanes and other mechanical devices in my lifetime. Many of them have not been perfect, I can't recall any offhand that were manufactured by divine beings. I have yet to brand an entire company and it's entire line of products that the vast majority of owners will testify are perfectly satisfactory as "garbage" and "POS".

From his description of cocking it while dragging the cylinder, I consider it most likely that the OP bent the spring by forcing it out of it's groove while holding the cylinder and trying to cock his gun. An undamaged spring with tension directed into the retaining groove will most likely make his gun 100% (as long as he doesn't hold the cylinder while cocking it) if he is capable of accomplishing it without further damage to his gun, as described in the link on Post #4.

Hopefully the OP doesn't own a BMW and attempt to take the fan off (reverse threads to prevent unscrewing during use, just like the NAA and S&W). It'll be even worse if he tries to change the chuck on his electric drill, everyone of those stupid drill design engineers used reverse thread screws on the retaining bolt. Hard to believe that they were ALL that stupid, isn't it? If you don't have the training, engineering, or common sense background to look at something and understand the parameters that drove it's design, it's probably best to leave it along and let someone else fix it for you. Sometimes it pays to do i little research before beating up your equipment.

EDIT: Just noticed the OP said:

The first time it happened was when I had the hammer pulled back, but not cocked and rotated the cylinder to see how freely it spun. That popped the spring out.

I would suggest that on ANY single action revolver that if you are pulling the hammer back and the cylinder doesn't turn freely (you probably didn't pull it back far enough to disengage the cylinder stop) then DON'T force it!

In the link above at the bottom of the page, NAA also includes directions on loading for those not familiar with single actions. Carefully note #3. If the hammer is NOT pulled far enough back the cylinder will NOT freely rotate!

The Safety Cylinder is a critical part of the gun. We recommend that you practice the following steps to become proficient at using the Safety Cylinder before loading the gun.

First: Make sure the gun is unloaded.
Second: Make sure the gun is unloaded!
Third: Retract the hammer to the point that the cylinder spins freely (about half-way) and keep it retracted.
Fourth: Looking through the top/rear of the frame, locate any of the five milled safety slots (those notches on the cylinder between the chambers), and position any slot directly beneath the blade of the hammer (which is still retracted).
Fifth: While still retracting the hammer, depress the trigger (and keep it depressed)
now allow the hammer to settle into the slot.

[Onward Allusion]

So, how do you feel about NAA Minis, again?

Dunno, I have 3 NAA Minis and a Guardian in 32. Even had a Guardian 380 but that thing was a bear to shoot and too heavy for a pocket pistol. None of them had any issues - ever.

Let us know how the factory treats you. NAA Customer Service was always excellent in the couple of times I had to deal with them.

[Pezo]

I'll add that I dont consider these a novelty but rather a defense niche gun. I stopped dryfire and just shoot live ammo but I still function test it periodically by cocking it (unloaded of course) and riding the hammer down with my thumb to check its working. All this weapon needs to do (or can be expected to do) in a defensive situation is get you five shots of .22 (mag I recommend) out of your fist. Reloading in an extended gun fight is not going to happen. It's an onion field gun or a get off me so I can get my primary "type" gun. I carry mine on my ankle as a backup only. If I'm sitting I can access it easy off my ankle where it may be difficult to get my "in wasteband appendix" tucked .38 out. I can see only a very narrow window of reasons to carry it as a primary. Five shots of Speer gold dot .22 mag out of a gun you can't see in my fist has a good purpose in the defense field. It is not fair though to compare it to a standard size defense weapon.

[TruthTellers]

I was able to fix the issue last night, whether it is a temporary or permanant fix time will tell.

However, I did follow the link someone posted early in this thread and I looked at a few things. One thing I did differently last night was I bent the tiny spring ever so slightly to give it more pressure against the hand. My hope is the extra pressure of the spring will help retain it in the groove of the hand.

Next time the spring pops out tho, I'm sending it to NAA.

[FITASC]

This is the third or fourth time I've had to dick with the hand spring issue and I'm sick of it. Sometimes it happens when I'm simply inserting the cylinder and I have to pull the hammer back slightly to fully push the cylinder pin in and when I pull the hammer back, cylinder doesn't rotate because... the piece of chickenwire popped out of the groove.

I'm not a gunsmith. When I first had to fix the issue, I didn't know the screw was a left hand thread, which is another stupid thing NAA did. Left hand threads...

Sorry, but it sure sounds like the issue lies with you and your shade-tree attempt at gunsmithing......

[roashooter]

Sorry, but it sure sounds like the issue lies with you and your shade-tree attempt at gunsmithing......

Bingo!!!

[fastbolt]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I was able to fix the issue last night, whether it is a temporary or permanant fix time will tell.

However, I did follow the link someone posted early in this thread and I looked at a few things. One thing I did differently last night was I bent the tiny spring ever so slightly to give it more pressure against the hand. My hope is the extra pressure of the spring will help retain it in the groove of the hand.

Next time the spring pops out tho, I'm sending it to NAA.

Depending on the spring, its design, material & heat treat, and the intended application ... "bending" a spring to give it more tension is usually, at best, a temporary "fix". It's not unusual for it to weaken some springs and even accelerate the loss of tension (and even worsen the problem that made you think it was somehow a good idea to bend the spring).

Call NAA and arrange to have it returned for whatever degree of warranty repair they'll decide to offer under warranty. They're pretty decent folks.

If you know a gun dealer who has an account with a major shipper, and especially one who may known and like you, you might be able to save on the cost of sending it to them.

Ever see one those signs above a gunsmith's counter? (Similar to signs anywhere service people fix things ) Using an arbitrary dollar figure ...

$25/hour to repair a problem
$50/hr if you tried to "fix" it first
$75/hr if you watch
$100/hr if you offer advice

[DPris]

Just get it back to people who know what they're doing.
Denis