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Old June 19, 2017, 08:06 PM   #76
polaris joe
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The only problem I have with the M&P is S&W lies about it being DAO
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Old June 19, 2017, 08:23 PM   #77
Glenn E. Meyer
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SPECIFICATIONS

SKU: 11526
Model: M&P®45 M2.0™ Thumb Safety
Caliber: .45 AUTO
Capacity: 10+1
Barrel Length: 4.6" / 11.7 cm
Overall Length: 7.9"
Front Sight: Steel - White Dot
Rear Sight: Steel - White Two Dot
Action: Striker Fire
Grip: Polymer
Weight: 27.0 oz / 765.4g
Barrel Material: Stainless Steel - Armornite® Finish
Slide Material: Stainless Steel - Armornite® Finish
Frame Material: Polymer
Purpose: Home Protection, Personal Protection

So where are they lying about it being DAO? A 3rd gen 3953 was DAO, this gun is not.
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Old June 19, 2017, 09:17 PM   #78
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Back to the OP; striker-fired guns without manual safeties are not a new trend.

The four most significant trends I have seen over roughly the last thirty years in customer demands for handguns have been: lighter triggers; shorter triggers; consistent trigger pulls, and; no safeties to manipulate. Taken together, those trends translate to making guns simpler and easier to shoot.

Beyond manually-cocked revolvers, handguns traditionally had manual safeties or long and/or heavy trigger pulls. The trends over the last thirty years have resulted in the reduction of trigger-related safety factors while also avoiding the use of manual safeties.
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Old June 19, 2017, 09:50 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
So where are they lying about it being DAO? A 3rd gen 3953 was DAO, this gun is not.
S&W emphasizes different things at different times, such as labeling the M&P as a DAO pistol on page 11 of the 2010 catalog.
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Old June 19, 2017, 10:43 PM   #80
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This whole premise of safety catches, on semi Auto pistols is going into asinine,
and when I read about the many pistols carried by the CCW crowd? Amazing.

The swapping from Colt 45 1911, to Glock, to S&W? These are vastly different weapons, in both design, and methods of safe deployment, holsters, ext!

Let me make it simple, take away the fear of carrying a fully loaded , round in the breach, pistol.

First, what I do, Glock 19 4th Gen 9mm pistol, 16 round capacity.

This is carried in a Kydex outside the belt holster, at the 10 past 3 position.
The G19 is held very tightly, by the design of the holster, no catches, just the design. The trigger is hidden, a sliver of the holster has been trimmed away, exposing the extractor. The extractor can be felt to be proud of the slide, hence proof of live round being in said chamber. No need to withdraw the pistol to check status, i.e. loaded or not.

Pistol needed for self defense, sweep shirt, firm grip of pistol and draw.

When sights aligned, depress trigger the required amount of times. The trigger weight to release, 5 lb? Close anyhow.

The trigger of a Pistol, is the most important piece of equipment on the Pistol, reference the accuracy. Ask any target shooter.

This is not brain surgery you know.
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Old June 20, 2017, 02:33 AM   #81
marine6680
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I just happen to have a screen capture of the old S&W website layout before the recent change...

It lists DAO specifically.

Now, they are no longer listing it as a DAO, and it may be down to the fact that most people are no longer freaked out by the idea of a light crisp trigger in a striker, and that SA feeling triggers are the big thing now.


Either way, I have never had an issue with the M&P, VP9, PPQ, and a few others that are on the lighter and crisper side of trigger pull. If they stay above 5lb, and have a good drop safety, and enough pull length to offer a little margin of error, I am good.






And...

Claiming a Glock and M&P trigger mechanism are the same... Still irks the engineer in me. Its like saying a screw and a nail are the same thing...
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Last edited by marine6680; June 20, 2017 at 02:40 AM.
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Old June 20, 2017, 09:03 AM   #82
Glenn E. Meyer
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The debate about whether strikers are DAO is getting a touch silly, isn't it.

Anyway, the original thrust is the good ol' one of folks being scared of their gun and shooting themselves or others based on trigger pull and not having a manual safety. It's sort of a yawn by now.

The answers are:

1. Train with it intensively
2. Get a good holster
3. Learn what to do with your finger. If you can't, that's your problem and your leg or the poor person you shoot incorrectly (for which you should go to jail).
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Old June 20, 2017, 11:17 AM   #83
polaris joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gc70 View Post
Back to the OP; striker-fired guns without manual safeties are not a new trend.

The four most significant trends I have seen over roughly the last thirty years in customer demands for handguns have been: lighter triggers; shorter triggers; consistent trigger pulls, and; no safeties to manipulate. Taken together, those trends translate to making guns simpler and easier to shoot.

Beyond manually-cocked revolvers, handguns traditionally had manual safeties or long and/or heavy trigger pulls. The trends over the last thirty years have resulted in the reduction of trigger-related safety factors while also avoiding the use of manual safeties.
Never said striker fired pistols without a manual safety was a new trend. I said SA striker fired pistols without a manual safety with lighter triggers are a new trend
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Old June 20, 2017, 11:23 AM   #84
polaris joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
The debate about whether strikers are DAO is getting a touch silly, isn't it.

Anyway, the original thrust is the good ol' one of folks being scared of their gun and shooting themselves or others based on trigger pull and not having a manual safety. It's sort of a yawn by now.

The answers are:

1. Train with it intensively
2. Get a good holster
3. Learn what to do with your finger. If you can't, that's your problem and your leg or the poor person you shoot incorrectly (for which you should go to jail).
Not silly at all. Some are DAO Some are SA. What is truly silly is a company making false claims about their guns when anyone who knows the basic difference between the two can clearly see they are making a false claim. S&W is not the only company who has done that. When Springfield Armory first started importing the XD they listed it as DAO.
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Old June 20, 2017, 11:28 AM   #85
polaris joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marine6680 View Post
I just happen to have a screen capture of the old S&W website layout before the recent change...

It lists DAO specifically.

Now, they are no longer listing it as a DAO, and it may be down to the fact that most people are no longer freaked out by the idea of a light crisp trigger in a striker, and that SA feeling triggers are the big thing now.


Either way, I have never had an issue with the M&P, VP9, PPQ, and a few others that are on the lighter and crisper side of trigger pull. If they stay above 5lb, and have a good drop safety, and enough pull length to offer a little margin of error, I am good.






And...

Claiming a Glock and M&P trigger mechanism are the same... Still irks the engineer in me. Its like saying a screw and a nail are the same thing...
I think a lot of this comes from the fact that years ago many major police depts. would not allow their people to carry a SA pistol. Plus some people, no matter if they are right or wrong, simply fear a SA pistol even with a manual safety.
Those people should not be mislead by a gun company.
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Old June 20, 2017, 11:44 AM   #86
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what specific models are you talking about? you have peaked my interest and now I want to try them out.
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Old June 20, 2017, 11:54 AM   #87
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I'll stick with my hammer fired decocker and not deal with these silly debates.

the biggest flaw in safety is the human factor. There is no amount of safeties of any design that can ultimately take out the human factor when it comes to firearms and safety. You are the first and last line of safety when it comes to operating your firearm. Adding a manual safety will not change this.

I handle my gun more than is really needed so I can stay familiar with it in my hand, so it doesn't feel foreign to me if I ever need to use it. That being said, I always handle my gun as though it were loaded, even when I take it apart. If I always treat it as though it is loaded and follow some simple safety measures, I should not have an accidental discharge.

You have to be 100% right with firearms at all times. All it takes is one mistake, one slip up, to create a problem you didn't intend. If you feel you need a manual safety on your striker fired gun, then go buy one and enjoy it. I'm not saying they're necessary or unnecessary, but it is all a matter of opinion to the owner of the gun. My best advice is to know your limits and abilities, that means being 100% honest with yourself, and then planning accordingly. And train, a lot, more than you think you need to or should.
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Old June 20, 2017, 01:40 PM   #88
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Quote:
Never said striker fired pistols without a manual safety was a new trend.
Actually, it is the title that you gave to the thread.
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Old June 20, 2017, 05:32 PM   #89
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To be fair... the title of the thread is... "New trend. SA striker fired guns with no manaul safety"... Misspelling and all, and SA mentioned.


I also have to agree that SA like striker triggers are the current trend, with all new designs released in the past 5 years give or take, with a few exceptions like the FNS and Canik, having very SA like mechanisms.

We may can argue that the trend started earlier, or whenever, but I don't think Glocks fit into the trend due to how they work.


I do not think this trend is a problem in and of itself. Most I have seen, are designed with safety in mind, but mostly keeping the trigger out of your way... As far as not being a hinderance anyway.


And I agree with Glenn and others, when they stress proper training and knowledge of your firearm and how it functions, as being the most important aspects of safety... Which I feel is the most important thing for any and every firearm.
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Old June 20, 2017, 06:07 PM   #90
Glenn E. Meyer
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I'm calling it as the points are well made about safety, training and equipment (for the millionth time on gun forums on Glocks, safeties, definitions of trigger types) and arguing about the ill defined first post and continuing confusing by the OP of what he or she means is a waste.

Closed.
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