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Old December 13, 2018, 06:49 AM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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What’s the better investment?

As we all know, not having any money is often a poor reason not to buy a new gun and thus right now I’m considering two possibilities.

First some background: here in Estonia, range time is expensive, ammo is expensive and time is short and a recent thread on my shooting technique made me go back to something I’d been told in the past.

A while back an instructor suggested that a cheap way to improve follow ups as well as general technique was to buy an airsoft equivalent of one’s own gun and do slow-fast shooting indoors. They can be made to have recoil. Pellets are cheap and reusable.

The second choice is a break action air pistol. No follow ups but is cheaper to buy and is more satisfying when plinking outdoors.

Do either have merit?
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Old December 13, 2018, 05:47 PM   #2
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Strongly recommend!

Many hours in my basement with a .177 pellet pistol is how I learned to be accurate with a handgun. Of course no internet in those dark old days, just books and magazines.
I've been looking at pellet pistols lately again, already have several.

There is a C02 powered metal Beretta PX4 that is a virtual double for the real McCoy. Heck the slide even cycles when fired.

Not a fan of pumping up guns so I lean toward C02 powered. Rapid fire is impacted as things tend to get too cold to work with C02, that's about the only issue.
You can spend a lot on a pellet pistol. Watch for sales, a Benjamin will cover the cost and get you going with a reasonably accurate pistol. I'm talkin 100 dollar bill, not the brand. Tho not a bad choice.
If you shoot in an enclosed space be aware they do require ears, they are pretty darn loud.
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Old December 14, 2018, 03:00 AM   #3
Pond, James Pond
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This was my thinking but....

....when you say .177, do you mean the airsoft BB gun or an air pistol?

My options are a Hatsan Model 25 spring gun at €92 or a metal CZ75 BB gun at €150.
Both are .177, I believe.
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Old December 14, 2018, 09:20 AM   #4
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Yes

Yes I mean air pistol BB or pellet .177 caliber.

I think of airsoft being the larger plastic balls, they are fun too. The issue with the plastic airsoft is the lack of accuracy.

Actually airsoft are pretty amazing considering there is no rifling at all and the projectile is molded plastic. They are accurate enough for short range self defense practice.

.177 pellet pistols can be world class for accuracy. As little as a hundred bucks buys a pistol that is accurate and can be a exact replica of a firearm.

I have not done any business with them, but have heard good reviews for Pyramid air, they do have a nice web site.

Air guns are fun. Lewis and Clark brought an airgun on there journey and Clark loved demonstrating it to the natives.
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Old December 15, 2018, 02:37 PM   #5
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"...First some background:..." That applies everywhere.
Airsoft makes toy guns. They are not substitutes for real firearms. However, a good air powered target pistol or rifle will let you practice the same techniques used with real firearms without all the flash and banging. Breathing, trigger control and sight picture is the same with a good air rifle or pistol as it is with a real firearm. Most Olympic handgun shooting is done with air powered stuff now too.
"...talkin' 100 dollar bill..." None of those in Estonia. snicker.
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Old December 15, 2018, 03:10 PM   #6
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They are not substitutes for real firearms.
Except that they have similar weight, a recoiling slide and exactly the same sights and ergos as they gun they replicate.

I get that they are not firearms, but I do see where the firearms instructor was coming from when he made that recommendation...

The problem with the air pistol is, despite decent weight and recoil from the spring action, is that follow-ups are not possible, being single shots.
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Old December 15, 2018, 04:06 PM   #7
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James: T Oheir is somewhat noted for his lack of correct information and is called on it frequently.

You would be correct, if its close then it has value for practice. Fight Simulators are not real airplanes either, but you can take someone who does not fly, put therm through an on ground Flight Simulator and spit them out with a license to fly a modern commercial aircraft.

The key is in what is referred to as the Fidelity. I.e. how real is it. The Level Ds are so real they are considered the same as an aircraft.

Not quite true of the Air soft etc but close enough.

If you are practice for self defense then follow up is needed as single shot does not stimulate close enough.

If its target practice, then its not critical, desirable but not a major detriment in my view.
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Old December 15, 2018, 04:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
You would be correct, if its close then it has value for practice. Fight Simulators are not real airplanes either, but you can take someone who does not fly, put therm through an on ground Flight Simulator and spit them out with a license to fly a modern commercial aircraft.
I don't think so. Who said what about T. O'Heir????
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Old December 19, 2018, 08:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Who said what about T. O'Heir????
I've noticed it but never really said anything. I prefer to be polite. But yeah, there is training value in airsoft. Especially in FOF training. For general shooting practice I would prefer a pellet pistol, unless I wanted to practice indoors and did not have space/room/options for a sufficient pellet trap.
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Old December 19, 2018, 10:10 AM   #10
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Plenty of repeaters

Heck one can go full auto with BB guns, there are several available.

There are also pellet pistols that employ a magazine and C02 power. Same for revolvers double action and 5 or 6 shots.

The down side for C02 repeaters is the nature of C02. It will freeze up or get cold enough that velocity becomes an issue. It's the rapid fire shooting, as long as you limit to 2-3 shots it's fine. Longer strings will just waste C02 due to the freeze up and velocity drop.

They are fun, and great practice. Eyes and ears, just like firearms. They can be quite loud, esp. if shooting in an enclosed area.
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Old December 25, 2018, 11:40 AM   #11
4V50 Gary
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Air pistol for accuracy and marksmanship.

Airsoft for tactical in-house training.

You might also consider laser for training.

Or a 22 conversion kit.
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Old December 25, 2018, 01:07 PM   #12
Ricklin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
"...First some background:..." That applies everywhere.
Airsoft makes toy guns. They are not substitutes for real firearms. However, a good air powered target pistol or rifle will let you practice the same techniques used with real firearms without all the flash and banging. Breathing, trigger control and sight picture is the same with a good air rifle or pistol as it is with a real firearm. Most Olympic handgun shooting is done with air powered stuff now too.
"...talkin' 100 dollar bill..." None of those in Estonia. snicker.
Don't bet the ranch on that, I'm sure there are plenty of Benjamin's in circulation in Estonia.
Good old Ben is pretty much the world reserve currency everywhere. Regardless of the currency employed, hundred dollar bills are accepted.
They are a very popular item!

Don't leave home without them.
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Old December 26, 2018, 08:35 AM   #13
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
Or a 22 conversion kit.
Over here that requires a buying permit and is essentially another firearm so I’ll avoid that route.

I think my priority has to be the air soft at this point but I can see myself getting both.

Had fun this morning plinking a rusty metal plate at 50 with the open sighted air rifle!
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Last edited by Pond, James Pond; December 27, 2018 at 09:38 AM.
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Old December 26, 2018, 10:45 PM   #14
Jim Watson
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If you want to practice for IPSC, Double Alpha sells airsoft supplies. Starting with 60% paper targets and on to plastic poppers, auto resetting poppers, electronic stop plates.
https://www.doublealpha.biz
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Old December 27, 2018, 08:30 AM   #15
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Air guns are a small step up from dry fire. A DA CO2 airgun is a good trigger finger strength builder. Teaches you how to control the trigger squeeze all the way theough the stroke as you watch the sights. Good revolver practice aid.
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Old December 27, 2018, 09:39 AM   #16
Pond, James Pond
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Dammit!

So I'd prefer to buy the airsoft first but its out of stock whilst the air pistol is sitting pretty in the window and costs less!
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