a novel idea... keep my 51 navies as is, & shoot them for CAS

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I honestly am not much of a black powder shooter... I have most all the stuff, but rarely use any of it...

I bought a pair of 51 Navies ( Pieta ) from Cabelas on sale, with full intention of converting them to 38 Colt...

the more I think about it ( I use my custom Ruger Montados for regular CAS use ) was thinking about this pair of 51's for regionals or special occasions... now I'm wondering what it would take for special equipment to shoot them as cap & ball revolvers at those "special" CAS matches

so... I'm sure some of you regularly shoot cap & ball at CAS matches... what do I need for special equipment to make this as painless as possible ???

for those that do... do you shoot black powder in a lever gun ??? that just seems like a lot more work, as I rarely "fully" disassemble my lever guns for cleaning afterwards with smokeless... but I'm sure it would add to the experience to shoot all the guns with black, not just the revolvers... any thoughts or suggestions there???

also... would it be totally out of character to trim the barrels of my Navies to 4.5 to 5" if I was going to keep them as cap & ball revolvers ???

a final question... if I shorten the barrels, I've usually used the dove tail Remington front sights as the new replacement front sight... my machinist buddy had a slug of them, but he was looking to reorder, & can't find any, anymore... anyone have a source to buy 5-10 dove tail Remington type front sights ???

[aarondhgraham]

that just seems like a lot more work,

In a nutshell, that's why more people don't do the black powder thing at CAS events.

It's why I divested myself of all my black powder guns,,,
They were fun as all heck but too much work to clean after a shoot.

I found myself never shooting them because of that.

Label me: Too lazy for black powder.

Aarond

.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Aarond... that's pretty much how I am... but I'm guessing I'm in good company there... figured if I were really in the "cowboy" mood, & had time... ( like if I were taking the next week off work, so I lacked an excuse not to )... it would be really fun, I just have never run 100 rounds of cap & ball in an afternoon, not sure if the revolvers could take that without swamping the barrel & cleaning the cylinder ??? in the middle of a match... & I've honestly never put a black powder cartridge round through any of my lever guns before... the double barrel shotgun may be easier, & I already have a few brass shells... I'd have to buy more if I were going to run a full match with black powder though...

[Model12Win]

Honestly it IS a lot of work, just recreational shooting of cap and ball revolvers take a lot of preperation, gathering of materials, and so on.

And also after all that, there is always the (good) chance of your revolvers not working reliably. It takes a great deal of shooting and experimentation with them to find the load they like, and also getting the proper "formula" of caps, powder, lead and lubricant so that they are at least half way reliable. I personally am still on that quest with my 1851 navy, it just will not function right and almost every range trip some new problem pops up and it's getting annoying.

Really, I would just convert both those guns to .38 short Colt. MUCH less problems with reliability, and if you do it right, still very historically accurate. You could also always just sell them and buy the Uberti 1851 Navy conversion cartridge guns in .38 special. You could even load up your own black powder shells for those as well if you wanted to be extra authentic, using .38 short Colt brass.

Now don't get me wrong, some people have all the luck in the world with C&B shooting, I'm just not one of them I guess. You might fair better, but do keep in mind it IS going to be a LOT of work, even with good prep. The cleaning alone takes an hour per gun for me to do it properly to avoid rust, that's also something to consider.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

[g.willikers]

I've always found that BP guns clean up faster and better than smokeless ones.
What could be faster that swabbing with soap and water, drying them with air, quickly evaporating brake cleaner, or a preheated oven, and lube like always.
No big deal, really.
And if they foul too much for an entire match, just use Triple 7 powder.
Or clean between stages with a squirt bottle of Windex.
Or just shoot USPSA, IDPA and Steel Challenge, instead.

[Driftwood Johnson]

for those that do... do you shoot black powder in a lever gun ??? that just seems like a lot more work, as I rarely "fully" disassemble my lever guns for cleaning afterwards with smokeless... but I'm sure it would add to the experience to shoot all the guns with black, not just the revolvers... any thoughts or suggestions there???

Howdy

I shoot nothing but Black Powder in CAS. Pistols, rifle, and shotgun.

First off, I gave up shooting Cap & Ball a few years ago in CAS. Just too many problems regarding caps failing to ignite and pieces of caps falling in the actions. Yes, there are ways to tune a C&B revolver so these things are not a problem, but I did not put in that effort.

Shooting Black Powder in a cartridge revolver is so much easier than shooting it in a C&B. So much simpler to clean the chambers. Just run few patches of your favorite water based BP solvent through the chambers. So much easier than unscrewing nipples and trying to wick out every last bit of fouling from the nooks and crannies of a C&B chamber with patches and pipe cleaners. Straight shot through from the rear, no fooling around at all.

Regarding shooting Black Powder in a rifle; what's the point of shooting Black Powder in your pistols if you aren't going to do it with your rifle too? A rifle is so much easier to clean than a revolver. It is a closed system. Just a long pipe. No six extra chambers, no barrel/cylinder gap to leak fouling all over the place. Part of the trick is to choose a cartridge that obdurates fully in the chamber to seal the bore, so all the fouling stays in the barrel, none blows back into the action. 45 Colt can be troublesome in this regard, the case is so thick that it often does not expand at the low pressures of Black Powder to keep the fouling in the bore where it belongs. 44-40 or 38-40, on the other hand, have much thinner brass and seal the chamber beautifully in a rifle. Currently I have 5 rifles chambered for 44-40 and one chambered for 38-40. Some are replicas, some are antiques. Spent brass comes out just as shiny as most Smokeless shooters' brass because of the way the cases expand, keeping all the fouling in the bore.

When I finish a match, I chamber a spent round and then close the action. I swab the bore with a few patches soaked with my favorite BP solvent. All the dirty solvent stays down in the spent case. Then eject the spent round and all the dirty solvent onto the ground, run a patch soaked with Ballistol down the bore, followed by a dry patch to soak up the excess. Total time spent - around five minutes to clean the rifle. No, I absolutely do not completely tear down the rifle to clean it, absolutely not. The action has been lubed with Ballistol, and any fouling that works its way down inside the action is rendered harmless by the oil. Take the gun completely apart to clean it once a year. Plenty of guck inside, no rust. Been doing it for close to ten years.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

thanks for all the info... I've learned a lot already from this post...

[maillemaker]

There is a reason why the world no longer uses BP guns as a standard thing. Smokeless powder is superior for a number of reasons, less fouling being a big one.

Either you feel some connection to "doing it the old way" or you don't. If you do, then you take the good with the bad.

It's like shooting my Colt Walker reproduction. Colt had not figured out a good latching mechanism for the loading lever yet, and it shows - when you shoot the gun often the loading lever flops down and locks up the gun. Same thing happened in period. So, you're getting the full "authentic experience".

Dovetail front sight:
http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=58R20

Another:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...oducts_id=4235

Steve

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Thanks for the links... I think my buddy tried Dixie, & they were out... though the link doesn't say that, doesn't say in stock either???

[Jim Watson]

Agree with Driftwood.
I have seen a lot of people struggling because they thought cap & ball was a cheap way to get into CAS.
I have also seen people who did their homework, had their guns running right, had their loading gear and methods worked out, and having a great time.

Driftwood's rifle cleaning technique is interesting.

Some folks like Marlins because it is not much trouble to draw the breechbolt and clean from end to end.
Some like 66 and 73 Winchesters or repros because the barrel and lifter are all that is exposed to fouling, the actual lockwork is pretty well separated; unlike a '92.

[Hawg]

I clean my 92 44-40 the same way Driftwood does only I use soapy water instead of solvent.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

it's interesting how you guys are cleaning the rifles... I assumed with all the smoke ( maybe the smoke doesn't contain anything corrosive??? ) that I'd have to go all the way down, including pulling the wood ( at least fore arm ) in a lever gun after shooting black powder cartridges... this is part of what has kept me from going there all these years