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Old December 25, 2019, 09:17 PM   #1
mehavey
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MADDOW: NRA in Freefall

Quote:
Maddow claimed that the troubles at the NRA are not only a "huge deal" but a
"show-stopping deal," pointing to its shutdown of NRATV. "The once fearsome
NRA, the most powerful entity in conservative politics... I mean, they're in free-fall,"
https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-...cal-news-story

I have to admit that none of what has been spread across the headlines as imploding leadership has given me a warm fuzzy. Worse, there appears to have been no effective proactive actions on the part of the organization at all

And I also know that the now totally Democrat-controlled Virginia organs of government have vowed to run it out of the state.

From those in the know... how much of this is manufactured/self-fulling media, and how much true immolation ?
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Old December 25, 2019, 10:27 PM   #2
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Never been a fan of Wayne LaPierre and then add Ted Nugent and his antics as spokesperson and sorry no, I'm out. I was an NRA member for years and now haven't been one for more years than I was.

That doesn't mean I don't support the 2nd Amendment and gun owner's rights.

Last edited by NobodyJones; December 25, 2019 at 10:32 PM.
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Old December 25, 2019, 11:03 PM   #3
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There's another thread here somewhere about this. I don't doubt that the media is only gleefully showing the bad news. But I'm not sure there is any good news either. Wayne seems to be calling all the shots; the board of directors is afraid of him, and he thinks he's the emperor or something.

I've been a NRA member for almost 30 years. My dues are paid up thru the end of next year. If WLP is gone by then (of his own will, or hauled away in handcuffs for embezzlement and self-dealing, I don't care which) I might renew my membership. But not another dime until he's gone. I am still sending money to SAF.
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Old December 25, 2019, 11:12 PM   #4
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What is the SAF?
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Old December 25, 2019, 11:24 PM   #5
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Background: https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=601898

As far as NRATV, the primary purpose it served was to give NRA the cover of a “media organization” under the older campaign finance rules. After the Citizens United decision, there wasn’t much need for it if it wasn’t a separate, profit-producing media organization. It probably should have been ended earlier.

As far as SAF, that would be the Second Amendment Foundation. The important difference between it and the NRA is the organizational structure. If you give money to SAF, then Alan Gottlieb can spend it anyway he wants. In 2013, he wanted to spend it supporting universal background checks at the federal level.

NRA took a harder line in 2013; but they have problems as well. There are problems to both approaches.
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Old December 26, 2019, 07:49 AM   #6
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Support whichever pro-gun organization you want, but support a pro-gun organization! You alone mean diddly in the world of politics.
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Old December 26, 2019, 09:12 AM   #7
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I was a member for almost fifty years. I dropped out a couple of years ago due to the mismanagement and thievery going on within the organization. The elections are a joke and no one really has any say in anything. Those at the top considered it their piggy bank. I hope it gets squared away and I'd consider getting back in. I simply am at odds with their management, policies, and lack of planning for the reality of where we are today in this country. We're polarized politically in this country and the NRA seems to be supporting the polarization which just split their membership down the middle. Believe it or not, but there's millions of democrats who own guns, hunt, target shoot, and support the Second Amendment. You can't survive without them.
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Old December 26, 2019, 10:34 AM   #8
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My membership expires in 2022, I get notices in the mail to renew, every month or so?
But I will not renew.
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Old December 26, 2019, 10:59 AM   #9
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The fact this is heavily Conservative Fox News reporting this, in this manner, tells the tale of woe. Whenever you get folks that feel they are entitled and have to answer to nobody for their greed, you will get corruption. You will get folks that lose focus of their original intent and focus more on what they get out of it themselves. This is nuttin' new.
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Old December 26, 2019, 11:07 AM   #10
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^^Excellent post that should spread across America. Unfortunately everyone thinks that those in power who agree with their views are immune from this fact, you get blind loyalty.
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Old December 26, 2019, 12:17 PM   #11
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Fox News is just reporting what Rachel Maddow said. She is on MSNBC and satisfies Trump haters with constant rants that insult Trump and his supporters. The fact that Rachel Maddow said this suggests to me that the NRA is doing just fine, or at least is dealing with its problems.
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Old December 26, 2019, 02:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Believe it or not, but there's millions of democrats who own guns, hunt, target shoot, and support the Second Amendment. You can't survive without them.
You can’t survive with them if they continue to vote for candidates who want to destroy the Second Amendment despite all their hypothetical support.
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Old December 26, 2019, 02:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McShooty
... the NRA is doing just fine, or at least is dealing with its problems.
LaPierre is still in office, so the NRA is not doing just fine, and is not dealing with its problems. The biggest problem is Wayne LaPierre.
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Old December 26, 2019, 03:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
LaPierre is still in office, so the NRA is not doing just fine, and is not dealing with its problems. The biggest problem is Wayne LaPierre.
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Old December 26, 2019, 03:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post
Support whichever pro-gun organization you want, but support a pro-gun organization! You alone mean diddly in the world of politics.
Correct!
And "support" does NOT simply include sending in some money
Gun owners are so freaking lazy and apathetic it's appalling

In all honesty, I blame gun owners MORE for the mess we are currently in than I do the left. In fact, I actually admire the game the left is playing, they are brilliant at it, they are effective, and they are winning. It sucks but it is our reality.

On our current course the Second Amendment is as good as dead
Could we change our course? Yes
Will we change it? I don't know

It is a bitter pill to swallow
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Old December 26, 2019, 03:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
LaPierre is still in office, so the NRA is not doing just fine, and is not dealing with its problems. The biggest problem is Wayne LaPierre.
Indeed. He must be fired.
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Old December 26, 2019, 04:56 PM   #17
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Sorry bout that folks!
I got worked up over what the NRA has become
Now reposting with more PG language

Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyJones View Post
Never been a fan of Wayne LaPierre and then add Ted Nugent and his antics as spokesperson and sorry no, I'm out. I was an NRA member for years and now haven't been one for more years than I was.

That doesn't mean I don't support the 2nd Amendment and gun owner's rights.
"Clearly you're a leftist plant meant to demoralize us and take down the 2A from the inside!"

Is what you will often be told when espousing such on gun forums.
I hear it all the time because I personally think the NRA does more harm than good... and I'm not afraid to say it.

Wayne La Piew and the rest of their out of touch leadership can go pound sand
May they all rot like the scum they are

They prey on the fear and ignorance of gun owners in order to rake in big $$$$ while producing next to nothing in return. Correction... Wayne does get to fly himself and his family/friends around on private jets to the Caribbean, buy nearly half a million dollars worth of suits, multiple million dollar homes, etc, etc, so they produce extravagance for him and a select few.

I've shifted all of my support to GOA and smaller, local fighters to protect the 2A
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Old December 26, 2019, 05:28 PM   #18
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If anyone is undecided... "Who should I support, the NRA or_____?"

Read this response from GOA/VCDL to AG Herring's opinion on Second Amendment Sanctuaries
Then compare it to a typical NRA response

If you dont want to read the whole thing, at least read the conclusion starting on page 11

READ HERE

Outstanding!
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Old December 26, 2019, 05:44 PM   #19
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LaPierre has given everyone a reason not to like him. Unfortunately that reflects on the NRA as well.
Whether you like the NRA or not, they are still the best chance gun owners have to buck the democrats and liberals who want to disarm the population because they refuse to do anything about criminals.
We will NOT be better off without the NRA. And if they do fail and cease to exist you can expect your 2nd Amendment rights to follow them.
What other organization does as much to preserve the 2nd Amendment?
What other organization spends as much towards pro-gun causes?
There is more on the line than just your membership or dislike for LaPierre.
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Old December 26, 2019, 06:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoArk Willy View Post
LaPierre has given everyone a reason not to like him.
It isn't just Wayne
They have cancer from top to bottom

Quote:
Whether you like the NRA or not, they are still the best chance gun owners have to buck the democrats and liberals
Utter nonsense
WE are the best chance

Quote:
We will NOT be better off without the NRA
Out of touch nonsense
The NRA is the lefts whipping boy, and they use its existence to effectively rally their base in a big way

If/when the NRA falls (and I hope they do) I believe it could potentially be a catalyst for gun owners to finally get off their lazy, apathetic rear ends AND START FIGHTING.
The NRA has been a crutch for a significant number of gun owners for far too long... "Oh I give money to the NRA so I'm fighting"...dErP

Quote:
And if they do fail and cease to exist you can expect your 2nd Amendment rights to follow them.
If you don't expect the 2A to fall as things stand today, then you aren't paying attention.
We are losing the fight (if anything by attrition alone) while they continue to get stronger.

Quote:
What other organization does as much to preserve the 2nd Amendment?
What other organization has stood longer over the steady decline of 2A rights?

Quote:
What other organization spends as much towards pro-gun causes?
It isn't always about how much you spend, but how effective the expenditure is, and the NRA produces ineffective trash
Further, if the NRA goes away does that mean the donation stream goes away?
No it doesn't, especially if they are replaced by better.

I have no clue what the VCDL or GOA have spent during recent months in VA, but they helped get more people involved than the NRA has done there in decades.

And what does the NRA do?
Do they join forces? NO
Do they offer help? NO

They swoop in after the fact (as they so often do) and try to grab the $$$ before the VCDL or GOA gets it all.
And I guarantee that if this this end positively for VA 2A rights, no matter how small, the NRA will claim credit in order to try and raise even more $$$

I truly hope the NRA falls in a spectacular fashion as that might finally start to motivate "our side" into getting off their lazy behinds.
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Last edited by TBM900; December 26, 2019 at 06:39 PM.
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Old December 26, 2019, 07:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Roberts
Quote:
Believe it or not, but there's millions of democrats who own guns, hunt, target shoot, and support the Second Amendment. You can't survive without them.
You can’t survive with them if they continue to vote for candidates who want to destroy the Second Amendment despite all their hypothetical support.
One's choices in terms of potential office holders will generally be binary. Someone who hunts and says he supports the 2d Am. while voting for candidates of a party that is the home of gun prohibitionists has made a choice that doesn't help 2d Am. rights.

Yes, the NRA has problems. Not problems as dire as those of the SPLC or the ACLU, but problems none the less. Abstaining from rights advocacy because you are disappointed in the primary electoral advocate for the right is puerile and ineffective. It may make some feel better, but politics aren't about one's feelings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBM900
Read this response from GOA/VCDL to AG Herring's opinion on Second Amendment Sanctuaries
Then compare it to a typical NRA response
Let's not confuse electoral efficacy with who most closely matches our own views. Hardly anyone knows who Larry Pratt is and even fewer care. That isn't to demean him or you, but to note that he is a little fish. little fish aren't scary.

Quote:
They prey on the fear and ignorance of gun owners in order to rake in big $$$$ while producing next to nothing in return.
NRA people responded after Sandy Hook when some of the Admins here were arguing the merits of public silence on the issue. NRA people responded to the post Parkland media offensive when people were shy about criticizing a public message spoken by "children". Following Las Vegas, the only federal action was a dubious bumpstock restriction.

The NRA has had a hand at the federal level in no legislation being produced, which is exactly the amount of legislation with which you might trust congress.

It's great that you support the GOA. Advocacy support doesn't need to be a single choice and different organizations can play different roles. Hostility toward the biggest advocate because you think a minor one does a better job isn't a choice compelled by logic.
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Old December 26, 2019, 08:36 PM   #22
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Let's not forget the topic of this thread:

Quote:
Maddow claimed that the troubles at the NRA are not only a "huge deal" but a
"show-stopping deal," pointing to its shutdown of NRATV. "The once fearsome
NRA, the most powerful entity in conservative politics... I mean, they're in free-fall,"
I received confirmation (to my satisfaction, your mileage may vary) of just how hard up and on the rocks the NRA is. I'm writing this at 8:30 p.m. on December 26 -- the day after Christmas. A couple of hours ago, my landline telephone rang. Foolishly, I ignored my usual protocol and answered, rather than letting the answering machine do its thing.

The caller was a woman calling on behalf of the NRA. She said she was conducting a survey. (Hint: that's their standard gambit these days. It's always a survey -- a one-question survey with answers so obvious that you can tell immediately that they don't really care what you answer. They have you on the phone, and talking.) Immediately after the "survey," she launched into the real reason for the call (she didn't say that -- I said that): the fundraising pitch. But they've upped the ante. I'm accustomed to their asking for fifty bucks, then dropping to twenty-five and then fifteen if you don't sign on for fifty. Today she started at one hundred fifty dollars.

That's as far as we went. I told her that under no circumstances would I donate any more money to the NRA as long as Wayne LaPierre remains as the Executive Vice President.

She couldn't end the call fast enough.

This, to me, shows desperation. Making fundraising calls on the evening following Christmas is desperate, insensitive, tone deaf -- however you choose to characterize it. The NRA IS in trouble. They know that Wayne LaPierre is toxic, but he is so well entranched that nobody can force him out, and he doesn't have to common decency to just retire [semi-] gracefully.
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Old December 26, 2019, 08:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
Hostility toward the biggest advocate because you think a minor one does a better job isn't a choice compelled by logic.
Except for the fact that I stated no such thing
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Old December 26, 2019, 09:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoArk Willy View Post
LaPierre has given everyone a reason not to like him. Unfortunately that reflects on the NRA as well.
Whether you like the NRA or not, they are still the best chance gun owners have to buck the democrats and liberals who want to disarm the population because they refuse to do anything about criminals.
We will NOT be better off without the NRA. And if they do fail and cease to exist you can expect your 2nd Amendment rights to follow them.
What other organization does as much to preserve the 2nd Amendment?
What other organization spends as much towards pro-gun causes?
There is more on the line than just your membership or dislike for LaPierre.
It is of utmost importance to have a strong NRA at this moment in history. To ensure that strength, every member should demand the firing of LaPierre. I wrote them and told them on the phone that I will not renew my membership nor contribute 1more cent until he is fired.
There must be a tearing down to build back a strong organization.
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Old December 27, 2019, 12:33 AM   #25
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If the NRA goes belly up, who cares? If it happens existing and/or new organizations will fill the void. Where do you think existing NRA donations will go?
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