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Old November 24, 2015, 01:54 AM   #1
Fivesense
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Shotgun HD load

I did a cursory forum search on this subject and and nothing readily popped up, so here goes:

What is your preferred HD load for your shotgun?

I have a Remington 870 HD pump with a 6 shot side saddle (although I'm considering a Mossberg 930; I wouldn't mind slightly less recoil). I've currently got Fiocchi Less Lethal as my first two out of the barrel, followed by Winchester PDX Defender. I keep the Less Lethal in there for the occasional wild animal (bear, javelina) that treads too close to the house if we are outside. If they force the issue they'll get the PDX or full on slug.
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Old November 24, 2015, 03:05 AM   #2
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I make them myself.........5 000 buckshot with the voids filled with #8 or BBs.
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Old November 24, 2015, 10:28 AM   #3
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Just about anything 12 gauge is impressive.
But why argue with success - buckshot and slugs.
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Old November 24, 2015, 07:31 PM   #4
silverbullet6oh
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Before......

Before I made my shotgun a "bug out" gun, and when it was my backup home defense option just after my S&W .40 pistol, I would only load 2 3/4" 1 oz HP slugs. Now my shotgun is for outdoor use only as it is too long to be used in confined areas.

Thanks - P
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Old November 24, 2015, 07:51 PM   #5
Fivesense
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Quote:
Before I made my shotgun a "bug out" gun, and when it was my backup home defense option just after my S&W .40 pistol, I would only load 2 3/4" 1 oz HP slugs. Now my shotgun is for outdoor use only as it is too long to be used in confined areas.
I think 2 .3/4 one oz. slugs are a viable idea as is #1 buckshot. Birdshot is also devastating in close quarters. The beauty of shotguns today is their ability to have 4-10+ rounds, which allows for multiple different loads (levels of lethality if you'll allow me to use the phrase). To my mind, shoot until the threat is stopped.
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Old November 24, 2015, 09:36 PM   #6
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I've shot those 12 gauge PDX slug/buckshot combos out of a smoothbore shotgun with rifle sights. The slug is accurate on point of aim and the buckshot consistently form a nice little 3 point triangle around where the slug hits. I'm a fan.
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Old November 24, 2015, 10:03 PM   #7
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I would go with OO buck. I don't understand why some people insist on recommending birdshot or less lethal rounds. If I need to protect myself or my family I'm going all in.
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Old November 24, 2015, 10:18 PM   #8
Screwball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StumpShooter View Post
I've shot those 12 gauge PDX slug/buckshot combos out of a smoothbore shotgun with rifle sights. The slug is accurate on point of aim and the buckshot consistently form a nice little 3 point triangle around where the slug hits. I'm a fan.

That's what I use... but do have my duty gun (and backup gun) usually nearby. For the distances in my house, if I put the slug center-mass, the farthest shot would keep the buckshot within the body/head.

But old habits do die hard... I have two breacher rounds in my sidesaddle. Used to run the shotguns in my old department like that (we didn't use regular slugs, as the cars all had ARs).
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Old November 25, 2015, 04:53 AM   #9
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PDX1 may seem gimmicky to some, but go out and pattern that bad boy, even at close distances your getting a good 8" diameter wounding area with a perfect triangle every time with athe slug dead on POA. Really love, be hard pressed to find something as consistent and its not a harsh shooter either. Whether you agree with stacking loads or not, I have alternating PDX1 and good ole mil spec buck loaded in mine.
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Old November 25, 2015, 08:23 AM   #10
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I believe #4 buck will do the job as just well as the bigger projectiles at HD ranges and it reduces the risk of over penetration when compared them. Seems to be a good option for a neighborhood where the houses are pretty close together like mine.
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Old November 25, 2015, 10:02 AM   #11
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I am not a fan of mixing less than lethal ammunition with "regular" ammo.

But that's another thread I guess.

I use Low or Managed Recoil "OO" Buckshot in my HD shotgun. My Remington 870 keeps all pellets in a tight pattern at normal ranges.

Regards,

Rob
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Old November 26, 2015, 12:55 AM   #12
Dreaming100Straight
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Bird shot is NOT less than lethal, even though I agree it is a poor choice for defensive ammo. It is less lethal than some, but is definitely lethal. The problem with bird shot for defense is you want to immediately stop the threat, but while bird shot may eventually bring about death or not, it is less likely than buckshot or slugs to end the threat then and now.
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Old November 26, 2015, 09:00 AM   #13
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I use a Maverick 88 20g with a Mossburg 500 HD barrel on it. 00 works good and patterns good at HD distances
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Old December 23, 2015, 11:34 AM   #14
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I used #4 turkey shot. It's brutal but anything in a 12 gauge is lethal.
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Old December 23, 2015, 09:58 PM   #15
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ATM the guns are loaded wit RIO 00 buck. They are loaded with 00 buck because that is what is most available that I can physically manage enough to practice with. Any buckshot from 00 to #4 would be fine for For HD. Just pick one and practice with it. Suprema makes a good cheap 00 you can find a walmart. They wind up in the HD guns from time to time also.
I don't consider birdshot an option. Likewise the slugs I've tried are a bit over the top so to speak and don't offer any advantage for my needs.
Most people are probably using a 12 gage for HD but I'm starting to lean to the 20. I've only tried #3 buck (when you can find it) and slugs so far. I like both. Still, my preference would be buck for HD in 20 gage. It hits hard yet it's more comfortable than the 12. The end result would be very similar.
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Old December 26, 2015, 04:58 AM   #16
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bad ideas

I think there are some bad ideas floating about here, so I'm compelled to chime in.

Mixing less than lethal ammo, and standard ammo in the same gun is a bad idea. Having to work your way through the magazine, when faced with some type of lethal threat, consumes time which one may not have. And there's the issue of keeping the order straight and having the LTL ammo up when you want it. Imagine you run some type of wildlife off (as posed by the OP) and fail to top the gun off with LTL. Next time you use it as a noisemaker/stinger, you have a wounded critter/assailant (or a dead one) that you laced with real ammo. If one must use the shotgun as some type of non lethal device, best to dedicate a firearm to that purpose solely, and mark the gun with paint, stocks, whatever, that makes it clearly identifiable, always.

The "buck and ball" loads made sense as a combat load in the blackpowder/musket era, (largely due to the tactics of the day) but currently the PDX type loads, I believe they are simply a ploy to sell more ammo. Any situation in SD/HD that a buck and ball load could solve, could just as simply be solved with a standard slug or buckshot charge. I'm thinking you land a slug or load of OO buck on a threat, you will not need a nice 3 point triangle of shot holes surrounding the point of impact.

Also, the idea of "backing" a handgun with the shotgun seems reversed. Handguns are nominal SD weapons and their lack of stopping power is widely acknowledged. I'll back the long gun with a handgun and hope it doesn't get to the point that I need it.

Finally, I have changed my stance on birdshot, and though I agree that at certain distances it will be devasting, those circumstances are limited to very close range, and there is no guarantee that the incident one faces will be within birdshots limited effectiveness. You could end up in the driveway, backyard, etc. Google shotgun wounds/images and you will find many images of folks peppered with birdshot who have survived and seem to be fuctioning just fine.
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Old December 26, 2015, 08:28 AM   #17
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I have a, probably 30 year old, Mossberg "Riot Gun" that lives next to my bed. It holds 4+1. I have 00 Buck in the chamber then rotate Slug, 00 Buck, Slug, 00 Buck.
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Old December 29, 2015, 09:15 PM   #18
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No. 4 Buck
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Old December 29, 2015, 09:39 PM   #19
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Bamaranger I agree with most of what you said buy your Google search is flawed. You said to Google shotgun wounds. Not shotgun fatalities. Birdshot is very small pellets but heavy game loads say in the #4 range carry much more energy to much further ranges than #8 or 9. A good choke in your gun makes a huge difference also.
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Old December 29, 2015, 09:56 PM   #20
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I'm by no means arguing against any load I'm just a big fan of a 18 inch group at 35 yards consisting of about 300 pellets. I should also say that for those interested, bismuth or tungsten shot is heavier and denser for penetrating giving the same shot size as lead. Steel shot is the lightest of them and doesn't penetrate. If so desired a man can buy these loads up to T-shot size. I can't remember it's exact diameter but it's close to .22
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Old December 29, 2015, 10:01 PM   #21
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the smaller shot usually spreads quicker, but in the average sized house there wont be much difference between #4 buck and 00 buck. that said, inside only I like #4 buck.
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Old December 29, 2015, 11:03 PM   #22
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2 3/4" 9 pellet 00 buck in my Mossberg 590 with 20" barrel, 9-shot, heatshield, sling, and bayonet. A modern trenchgun.
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Old December 30, 2015, 03:53 PM   #23
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Federal #1 FC load gets my vote. Lots of good data on it as it's been tested by many LE agencies but my gel test video is below for those looking.

Federal #1 buck gel test
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Old December 31, 2015, 04:47 PM   #24
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I keep my Mossberg 590 (9 shot) loaded to capacity with hornady critical defense 2 3/4" 00 buckshot. Can't argue with 8 00 pellets at 1600 fps.
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Old December 31, 2015, 06:29 PM   #25
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I live very rural so this would change depending on your living conditions. I have a mossberg 500 loaded with Federal 3" truflite 00 buck. 12 pellet 00 that is basically like a slug for the 1st 30 yards then starts to spread out. A long shot on bears, foxes, mountain lions etc is practical here.
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