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Old February 17, 2011, 12:24 PM   #1
Will Beararms
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"Mildly Corrosive" 7.62 x 54 and the Nagant

Mildly corrosive? I see some of the meglo-dealers advertising tins of 7.62 x 54 ammo as mildly corrosive. Does anyone here have experience with this ammo? If so, is something that can be easily dealt with my frequent cleanings or does it involve some tedious protocol that might include boiling the rifle in specially prepared water after every 100 rounds?

Thanks for your time and input.
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Old February 17, 2011, 12:37 PM   #2
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Here's the way I look at it, and what I do:

mildly corrosive = corrosive = clean after each use
- I use windex with ammonia sprayed down the barrel, swab, patch with hoppes, dry patch till clean, followed by a lightly remoiled patch.

non-corrosive = mildly corrosive = clean often
- Do everying above except for the windex (unless you just want to), but you can wait a couple days if you want (I don't want).
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Old February 17, 2011, 12:49 PM   #3
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There have been lots of threads on this subject. You should do a search and read them as they cover everything about cleaning after using corrosive ammo. The ONLY thing needed beyond a normal cleaning routine is first rinsing the barrel and action with warm water. The water will dissolve the corrosive salts from the primers. Then proceed with a normal cleaning routine.
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Old February 17, 2011, 12:52 PM   #4
ghengiskhan
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Quote:
mildly corrosive = corrosive = clean after each use
- I use windex with ammonia sprayed down the barrel, swab, patch with hoppes, dry patch till clean, followed by a lightly remoiled patch.

non-corrosive = mildly corrosive = clean often
- Do everying above except for the windex (unless you just want to), but you can wait a couple days if you want (I don't want).
That's kind of how I look at it as well. Some might scoff at that but who cares.

The ammonia trick, I have found, works quite well for my purposes.
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Old February 17, 2011, 01:06 PM   #5
James K
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Is that the same as your girlfriend being "mildly pregnant"? Corrosive is corrosive, there is no "mild" about it except in advertising hype.

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Old February 17, 2011, 01:07 PM   #6
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I just want to point out that Windex with amonia contains .05% amonia. The majority of the ingredient in Windex is WATER.
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Old February 17, 2011, 02:14 PM   #7
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The mildly corrosive refers to the total quantity of corrosive components in the primer.

Some have less than others. Some, including some of the surplus ammo that came out of the middle east, have more, a LOT more - a term I call wildly corrosive.

The joke used to be that, with some of the Syrian and Egyptian ammo, your bore would begin to rust in anticipation...

The difference?

Well, ultimately, not a lot as both will cause rusting.

But, the mildly corrosive primers generally won't cause the extent of rusting that the wildly corrosive primers will, or as quickly.

They will still damage your gun if you don't clean properly, though.
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Old February 17, 2011, 03:44 PM   #8
Don P
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I'm stating what I read on this site, www.7.62X54r.net.
They state that the water and windex is a waste of time and a unnecessary step. Hoppe's was developed in the day of the "corrosive primer". Hoppe's will dissolve the salts in the primer residue and neutralize its effects. Works for me. If you don't believe me click the link and read it for yourself.
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Old February 17, 2011, 03:51 PM   #9
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"mildly pregnant"

Hah!!! True, corrosive is corrosive, some are just extremely so. I've found French ammo to be some of the worst. I buy a bottle of Walmart "Windex" and refill it with water when half empty, and then again when half empty again. Then I use it up and get another. That's worked for me, along with normal cleaning.
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Old February 17, 2011, 04:27 PM   #10
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I agree with the comments about windex not being necessary, Hoppe's will dissolve the corrosive salts just fine. I know a couple people who have just hosed there wasr's off with the garden hose after a long trip to the range (oiling them heavily afterward). Windex has ammonia in it which helps release the salt, so do most gun cleaners. Some ammo can definitely be worse than others, i have found 54R ammo to generally be not bad. And the Russian ammo seems to be the least cleanest of all.
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Old February 17, 2011, 04:56 PM   #11
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What people don't realize is that Hoppes forumula has changed. One of the ingredients that was primarily effective in removing corrosive priming salts, benzene, is no longer present because it's a known carcinogen and all around damned nasty chemical.

Hoppes still has SOME ability to remove corrosive priming salts due to some free water in the ammonium hydroxide and ethyl alcohol components, but nothing like it used to be.

Simply put, Hoppes isn't nearly as effective as it used to be in removing corrosive priming salts.

Hot soapy water, windex, etc., which all have large amounts of free water, are far more sure, and are faster.
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Old February 17, 2011, 06:43 PM   #12
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So there
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Old February 17, 2011, 08:32 PM   #13
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Pouring plain hot water through the bore and scrubbing with a bronze brush works as well as anything. There are various gadgets to get water into the bore without soaking the whole rifle.

Mike, you may be 'one up" on me, but I am not aware of any primer mixtures that are "sort of" corrosive. They are either the old potassium chlorate or one of the non-corrosive mixes, like lead styphnate. Of course, the amount of mixture has a bearing; the big old .303 British primer is incredibly corrosive because of its size, not because the compound is any worse than that of any other primer.

The U.S. used the old FA 70 primer through WWII for the simple reason that they knew it was stable for years, while the new non-corrosive compounds, mostly developed in the 1930's, had not yet been proven stable. It would have been a bit embarassing to the Ordnance Department to have their ammunition go dead in the middle of a war, so they stuck to the tried and true and GIs had to scrub their rifles.

An exception was made for carbine ammo because Winchester and Williams told the Army that with corrosive ammo the carbine would become a rather awkward club. The Army went along because the carbine was to have limited issue and to be phased out as soon as possible. (In fact, it remained in service as long as the M1 rifle.)

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Old February 17, 2011, 11:38 PM   #14
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I have one simple rule to cover this.
If it's foreign, and it's military surplus, IT'S CORROSIVE!!!
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Old February 17, 2011, 11:41 PM   #15
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besides what cheapshooter said, how can you tell which ammo is a setup for this?
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Old February 17, 2011, 11:41 PM   #16
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lol... mildly compared to what???

That's like saying you have a fast car. Ya... fast compared to what? A Top fuel car?
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Old February 18, 2011, 12:29 AM   #17
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All I have ever used was hot water and clean as usual. never had one to rust. I think the windex is overkill, but if it makes you feel better, rock on.
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Old February 18, 2011, 01:31 AM   #18
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Jim,

As I noted, it's really a matter of just how much potassium chlorate is in the primer mix.

There are literally hundreds of primer recipes with a huge range of ingredients. Not all have the same kinds of ingredients, or same quantities.

Overall quantity of priming compound in the pellet is also an indicative factor, as well.

But, some primer mixtures might have as little as 7% potassium chlorate, while others could have 30% or more. That's a huge difference.
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Old February 18, 2011, 09:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
All I have ever used was hot water and clean as usual. never had one to rust. I think the windex is overkill, but if it makes you feel better, rock on.
Rocking on.....

I like the way the Windex leaves no streaks Water is just not as predictable. Could have chlorine in it; could be low ph (acidic); soft water (doesn't dissolve salts as well). Windex is predictable. Perhaps overkill, but I like guns that have been protected with a little overkill anyway. If I were to use water, I think I'd distill it and add ammonia. Wouldn't smell near as pleasant as Windex though.
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Old February 18, 2011, 09:54 AM   #20
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Even though GI Bore Cleaner, Mil C 372, was tested with corrosive primers, and supposed to dissolve corrosive residue, I had a bad experience with it not working.

I cleaned a Finnish M28/30 out with GI bore cleaner figuring that it would work as advertised, and one week later I had light rust in the barrel.

Since then, I use GI bore cleaner as a powder solvent only. When I fire corrosive ammunition I clean the barrel by pumping hot water up and down the bore with the cleaning patch.

The old way to do it was put the pan on the floor, put the muzzle in the pan, pump the cleaning rod and patch up and down, drawing the water up the bore through suction.

Never had a barrel rust because of residue after the hot water treatment.
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Old February 18, 2011, 10:38 AM   #21
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I put a large tea kettle on the stove and pour hot water through the bore, scrub with a bore brush and dish soap and rinse with hot water. I finish up by cleaning as normal. BTW it is the water that dissolves the salts not the ammonia which is a bit corrosive it self. Finally, rinse the bore brush and cleaning rod as they can transfer the salts to another gun or the one you just cleaned.:barf:
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Old February 18, 2011, 11:50 AM   #22
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GI Bore Cleaner from the 1950s and prior was about 65% water by volume, IIRC.

Did a very good job at removing corrosive priming residue, but it smelled like hell.
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Old February 18, 2011, 12:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
BTW it is the water that dissolves the salts not the ammonia which is a bit corrosive it self.
True, but it does help to remove copper fouling, under which could be more corrosive salts, but hey, we all have our methods. Seems most are effective.
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Old February 18, 2011, 03:21 PM   #24
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Even better, the ammonia helps remove traces of oil in the bore that might otherwise hide corrosive fouling.
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Old February 21, 2011, 09:16 AM   #25
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"Corrosive ammo ruins the gas cylinder, not the barrel."

OP was asking about the Moisin-Nagant rifle. Bolt action rifles generally don't have a gas cylinder.


And, proper cleaning techniques will also prevent harm to the gas cylinder.

Millions of M1 rifles used by American troops during World War II is a good indication of that, as are millions of semi-automatic rifles used by militaries around the world.

I used primarily corrosive ammunition in my SKS rifle for years (bought several cases of it) and always cleaned with lots of hot soapy water.

My gas cylinder is pristine.
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