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Old February 11, 2016, 10:37 AM   #1
JoeSF
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Mossberg 500 Hogue Stock

I have a mosseberg 500 12 ga, that I'd like to start using for shooting trap. The standard mossberg stock is hollow black plastic and is brutal on the shoulder. Is the hoagie stock any better with felt recoil and is it suitable for left handed shooters?
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Old February 11, 2016, 12:30 PM   #2
T. O'Heir
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Not likely. All M500's weigh pretty much the same with a wood or synthetic stock. Left or right makes no difference. Been using a standard 870 for eons with no fuss. The stock is the same anyway.
What ammo you using? Trap is usually shot with target ammo. Hunting ammo produces more felt recoil.
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Old February 11, 2016, 06:38 PM   #3
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I have the Hogue stock on my hunting shotgun, the only difference between the original wood stock and the hogue is the ability to grip it better due to the rubber overmolding.
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Old February 12, 2016, 09:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
I have a mosseberg 500 12 ga, that I'd like to start using for shooting trap. The standard mossberg stock is hollow black plastic and is brutal on the shoulder. Is the hoagie stock any better with felt recoil and is it suitable for left handed shooters?
Brutal on the shoulder could mean several things, one of which is fit. You then go on to mention felt recoil which IS fit.

Actual recoil is a math problem; perceived recoil, aka felt, aka kick, has to do with how the gun fits you. Form, stance, stock measurements, etc. have more to do with felt recoil while light versus heavy loads and gun weight have more to do with actual recoil.
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Old February 13, 2016, 06:31 PM   #5
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The Hogue stock does have a really soft recoil pad. But it is about the same length and pull of the factory stock.
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Old February 15, 2016, 04:34 PM   #6
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I'm not sure gun weight isn't more related to felt recoil than actual recoil. A 3 dram shell is a 3 dram shell. A 3 dram shell out of a 5.5 pound Mossberg feels a lot f=different than that same shell out of the same shotgun, but with a couple pounds of shot in that hollow stock and some lead tape out front.

A BT99 is about 8.5 pounds.
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Old February 15, 2016, 06:42 PM   #7
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And that makes it ACTUAL recoil; a simple math equation......Weight of the gun, mass of the ejecta, velocity of the ejecta = actual recoil.

Cast, DAH, DAC, LOP, etc., etc., are all factors affecting felt recoil
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Old February 15, 2016, 07:17 PM   #8
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The mass of the ejecta and velocity must match the mass of the gun and its velocity. The 'actual recoil' is determined by the mass and velocity of ejecta. No matter the mass of the gun, the 'actual recoil' will match the momentum of the ejecta. A 5.5 pound recoils at a higher velocity than an 8.8, bu with the same momentum(momentum being the measure of recoil). The weight of the gun will not change the velocity or mass of the ejecta. The mass of the arm will reduce the velocity of the arm, which in turn reduces the 'felt recoil.' Felt recoil being subjective, but almost universally being agreed that slower velocity = less when talking 'felt recoil.' 'Push' v. 'snap' is how it is generally described.

The Law of Conservation of Momentum translated into this argument looks something like:
(Massofgun X Velocityofgun) + (Massofejecta X Velocityofejecta) = 0

Wikipedia is much more eloquent on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil

It's been a while since I sat in a physics lecture. I think there is a physics professor who posts here from time to time. This is how I understand it.
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Old February 15, 2016, 07:42 PM   #9
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I use the Hogue stock on my Mossberg 500, and like it very much...particularly the forend. The recoil pad does an adequate job. My shotgun is a home defense gun, so I have been shooting lots of slug, buck...heavy kicking stuff.
Takes some good technique, as well as stock fit, to moderate recoil.

I have recently used a new Limbsaver Airtech recoil pad on another shotgun, a beretta 1201FP. Another light shotgun known for stiff recoil. The new Airtech pad is fantastic. I was skeptical, but shooting full power slugs and 00 buck made me a believer. Definitely better than any other recoil pad I've used.
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Old February 15, 2016, 08:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
The mass of the ejecta and velocity must match the mass of the gun and its velocity.
If it did, there would be zero recoil. That is not the case.

Quote:
Before you shoot a shotgun the gun and the shot shell pellets are both at rest. After you shoot the pellets/wad/powder goes out the barrel and the gun goes in the other direction. The key here is momentum which is mass times velocity. So although the velocity of the pellets is large, their mass is small compared to the mass of the gun. The key equation here is:

mgunvgun=mshotvshot + mwadvwad + mpowdervpowder

Where the left side is the mass and velocity of the gun and the right is the mass and velocity of the shot pellets, wad and powder gases. The velocity of the shot and wad is given to us by the manufacturers. The velocity of the powder gases is a little more complicated. There are a number of values for the velocity of the gases. The most commonly used one is 4,700 ft/s. Another estimate is 1.7 times the muzzle velocity of the shot. For this calculator I am using 4,700 ft/s. The difference here is one of a few percent, not very significant.

Since we know the mass/weight of the shot, the mass of the powder, the muzzle velocity and the mass/weight of the gun we can calculate the recoil velocity of the gun.

Once we have the recoil velocity of the shotgun we can calculate the kinetic energy of the gun. This is the "free" recoil energy. The recoil energy is calculated as:

Energy = 1/2 mgunvgun2
http://www.omahamarian.org/trap/shotshellenergy.html
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Old February 15, 2016, 11:59 PM   #11
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Your probably right, but I have to think about it some more.
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Old February 16, 2016, 07:25 AM   #12
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Momentum forward must equal momentum rearward i.e.; conservation of momentum. The mass of the ejecta times it's velocity will equal the mass of the gun times it's velocity, and the sum is zero because they are moving in opposite directions. That does not equal zero recoil.
Total recoil is just that, the total recoil energy. Peak recoil is the maximum rearward force at any instant, and plays heavily into perceived or felt recoil. I have a couple of books that go into a lot more detail before you even get to quantum physics.
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Old February 16, 2016, 05:30 PM   #13
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I definitely agree the momentum will equal zero, or as I put it "match".

I guess my understanding of the definition of recoil was incorrect. I thought it meant the momentum, and it seems apparent recoil is not momentum, but energy. I'm mostly thinking about whether that makes sense in the context of shooting since momentum of a cartridge is pretty constant for a given cartridge and load, but energy ill vary drastically from gun to gun.
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