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Old January 6, 2007, 11:29 PM   #1
QuestionEverything
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Is it legal to build your own full auto gun with a Class III license?

Is it? I recall hearing that if you have a Class III license you can make an NFA item for your personal use, as long as you don't transfer it to anyone else (since the NFA registry is now closed). So is there any problem with license holders building expedient homemade SMGs or going to a machine shop and making an M16 receiver? Is there a threshold where it becomes illegal for a license holder to simply modify an existing firearm to shoot full auto rather than building one from scratch? Would it be illegal to make a drop-in auto sear (I've seen CAD diagrams for them all over the place) for your AR-15? If you can build your own NFA items with a Class III license, it seems like a good way to economically own automatic guns and teach yourself a useful skill in the meantime.
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Old January 6, 2007, 11:34 PM   #2
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No. A manufacturer may make and/or convert firearms to full automatic, but it must be for his business.

If you are pondering getting the SOT to manufacture full-autos so you can play with machineguns, forget it. It will end up costing more than an existing transferrable machinegun just to get started, then ATF will pounce on you.

YOU can manufacture any NFA item you want, except a machinegun, without a license by submitting ATF Form 1's.
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Old January 7, 2007, 03:54 PM   #3
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So homemade suppressors and sawed-off long guns are good to go as long as you fill out a Form 1? And bombs as well? Interesting.
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Old January 7, 2007, 05:29 PM   #4
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And bombs as well?
Nope. These do not fall under NFA as they are not firearms. One would need a separate license to deal in explosives.
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Old January 7, 2007, 11:20 PM   #5
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So homemade suppressors and sawed-off long guns are good to go as long as you fill out a Form 1?
Almost. BATFE has to approve the Form 1 before you can make the firearm.
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Old January 9, 2007, 07:49 PM   #6
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This is a post from the gunsmiths forum http://thegunsmiths.com/phpBB2/ archives which might help answer the question.
A few years ago I had a firearms manufactures license and The local police wanted me to work on their M-16's, I contacted ATF to see what had to be done and I was told to apply for a manufactures license of nfa weapons. the law is a little different now but here is a copy of the rule from atf's site, http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/nobackfaq2.htm

(M11) How does a person qualify to import, manufacture, or deal in NFA firearms?

The person must be licensed under the GCA and pay the required special (occupational) tax imposed by the NFA. In addition, an importer (except importers of sporting shotguns and shotgun ammunition) must also be registered with ATF under the Arms Export Control Act of 1976.

After becoming licensed under the GCA, he or she must file ATF Form 5630.7 with the appropriate tax payment in the entire amount with ATF. [26 U. S. C. 5801, 18 U. S. C. 923, 27 CFR 47.31, 178.41, 179.34 and 179.193]


(M12) When must firearms special (occupational) taxes be paid, how much are the taxes, and how are they paid?

On first engaging in business and thereafter on or before the first day of July, these taxes must be paid in full. The current taxes are set out in the following table. Taxes are paid in the manner discussed in Question M11, above.

SPECIAL (OCCUPATIONAL) TAX RATES UNDER THE NFA CLASS OF ANNUAL TAXPAYER FEE


1 Importer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $1000.00
2 Manufacturer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $1000.00
3 Dealer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $ 500.00
4 Importer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $ 500.00 REDUCED*
5 Manufacturer of Firearms (Including "Any Other Weapons") $ 500.00 REDUCED*


* REDUCED = Rates which apply to certain taxpayers whose total gross receipts in the last taxable year are less than $500,000. )

With the 500.00 license I was able to build 30 different types of full auto rifles and pistols and didn't have to pay tax on them. but when I gave up my licenses I had to destroy them that was the only bitch.
This covers the feds but their may be state requirements that also have to be met. My work on the different guns was for R&D work I was trying to design my own selective fire weapon and improve existing systems.
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Old January 9, 2007, 08:32 PM   #7
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You can build your own kit guns without registering them. As long as you don't transfer them. If you make your own AK from a parts kit and bend you own receiver. It won't have a SN and it's still legal. If you buy the lower than it has to be registered and have a SN.
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Old January 10, 2007, 12:52 AM   #8
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Just to be more specific on the above post. The guns have to be semi-auto only. Just don't want anyone to get into trouble.
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Old January 21, 2007, 10:57 PM   #9
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The form 1 has a clause on it to prevent anyone from wasting their time thinking about making a machinegun.

And...you can't assemble a foreign weapon without a certain percentage of US parts...
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Old January 22, 2007, 10:15 AM   #10
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You can build your own kit guns without registering them.
Just not FA kit guns.
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Old January 22, 2007, 08:37 PM   #11
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And...you can't assemble a foreign weapon without a certain percentage of US parts...
More precisely you can't assemble a "non-sporting" foreign guns without the proper number of US parts. Assemble all the "sporting" foreign guns you want.
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Old March 2, 2007, 04:46 PM   #12
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You can build your own kit guns without registering them. As long as you don't transfer them. If you make your own AK from a parts kit and bend you own receiver. It won't have a SN and it's still legal. If you buy the lower than it has to be registered and have a SN.
Is this also the case with supressors? From what I can tell, no.

I have a form1 I need to send out, but I'd love to save the hassle(and $200) if possible.
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Old March 2, 2007, 05:13 PM   #13
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No, a suppressor is still an NFA item. It still requires the $200 tax even if you make and register it on a form 1.
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Old March 2, 2007, 05:15 PM   #14
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On the form it asks for a serial number. Do I have to make one up and engrave it on the part?
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Old March 2, 2007, 05:17 PM   #15
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yes you do.
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Old March 2, 2007, 11:32 PM   #16
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On the form it asks for a serial number. Do I have to make one up and engrave it on the part?
I wonder if you could use letters from the Cyrillic alphabet in the serial number. It would be funny to try. Just watch them try to enter that into the registry.
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Old March 7, 2007, 06:19 PM   #17
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You can assemble a foreign weapon with no regards to 922 if it's a NFA weapon.
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Old March 7, 2007, 10:13 PM   #18
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Since the inactment of the 1968 Gun Control Act, you cannot import NFA items for civilian consumption.
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Old March 7, 2007, 10:17 PM   #19
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On the form it asks for a serial number. Do I have to make one up and engrave it on the part?
As VUPD stated yep. I made up a serial number and model number and engraved them on the body of the tube after receiving approval.
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Old March 18, 2007, 09:36 PM   #20
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gun kit

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You can assemble a foreign weapon with no regards to 922 if it's a NFA weapon.
This means a prohibited person can own a firearm as long as they build it from a kit? Does this seem right?
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Old March 19, 2007, 07:52 AM   #21
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No, what is being stated here is that if the weapon in question is foreign and registered as NFA, then the other restrictions are trumped and no longer required.
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Old May 6, 2007, 05:55 PM   #22
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To make an "assault weapon"....

Fill out a form 1 stating your intentions. Get the CLEO signature, Pay the tax.

when it gets back:

buy the Parks kit (say a AK-47/SEMI-AUTO ONLY)
bend/machine/forge the receiver yourself
slap in the parts and the Short-bbl (making it NFA)

engrave the serial number you designed/devised.

shoot the piss out of it. Its legal.

CR 922 says that you have to have so many US made parts in your assult weapons (at least 10 I believe - non-NFA). There is no law (that I know of) that limits a SBR/SBS.

Unless you have a 07 FFL/C2 SOT status (FFL = 150.00/3 years & SOT=500/year) you cannot make or convert a SMG! Even then you can only make them for R&D. You CANNOT make them, even with an SOT, for the sole purpose of personal shooting! They HAVE to be made for sale or for R&D. These are called post-sample machine guns, and have to be sold to Law Enforcement or Military UNITS or to other SOT's with a special letter.

You can obtain the FFL/SOT from your home. FFLs used for gunsmithing and internet sales do not require the storefront properties. The BATF&E do NOT want people selling guns from their home... not retail at least.

A C3 Sot cannot make or import - just sell, a C2 sot can make and sell, cannot import. An Importer can Import and Sell, but not make. home this helps.
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Old May 6, 2007, 07:42 PM   #23
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CR 922 says that you have to have so many US made parts in your assult weapons
There is no such thing as an assault weapon. The bogus term created by the democrats in the 1994 "semi-Automatic Assault Weapon Ban" ceased to exist when the law expired in 2004.

There are however, firearms that do not meet the "sporting clause" of the '68 CGA and are therefore not legal for import for civilians. These are the firearms that 922(r) is talking about. ATF has ruled that one way around 922(r) is to create an NFA firearm out of the import, which by definition isn't a sporting firearm.
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Old May 6, 2007, 09:44 PM   #24
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Correct!!!

That is a great quote BTW!!! Nice play on words!

I use the term Assault Weapon loosly... Although technically the term no longer applies, it still serves to 'relate' particular weapons to a set catagory that the 922r governs.

Although there is 'rumored' that our glorious congress has a bill on their docket that would not only re-inact the AW Ban, but also add an additional 30+ weapons to the list, and this time make it perm. If Hillary or Roody gets office this comming term its a pretty safe bet that this law will pass. Both are VERY anti-gun. Out of all the candidates the most firearm friendly one would have to be MaCain. The only down side to him is he flip-flops his views. I Just hope the NRA, as hard working as they are, are prepaired to step up their game in the comming few months.
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Old May 12, 2007, 09:04 PM   #25
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Out of all the candidates the most firearm friendly one would have to be MaCain
You must be joking. You can't honestly think that McCain is more pro gun than Hunter, Thompson, Tancredo etc... Remeber the McCain Fiengold debacle? A clear violation of the 1st amendment. Sorry but McCain would sell out gun owners as fast as he could if he thought it would get him anywhere. Hell, he even considered becoming a running mate with Kerry.
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