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Old April 26, 2007, 05:02 PM   #1
Trapp
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Suppressor "Shot down"

So, I have been hemming and hawing about getting a suppressor. I think I just made up my mind not to get one.

That is, unless someone knows an inexpensive way to get rid of a suppressor if I get stationed where they are not allowed.

I just don't know if I want to deal with that hassle though.
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Old April 26, 2007, 06:06 PM   #2
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I'd imagine the local law enforcement agency would take it. That would be an expensive donation to the plasma cutter.
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Old April 26, 2007, 07:29 PM   #3
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You do not have to get rid of it. You can place it in storage, either at a rental facility or with a friend/relative in the state it is registered. You could even store it in a bank safe deposit box. IF you leave it with someone, the suppressor needs to be secured in a container that only you can open. Leave a copy of your Form 4 with them. You must provide ATF with the address where you are storing your suppressor. That's it.
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Old April 26, 2007, 07:48 PM   #4
fisherman66
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If you follow HKMP's suggestion you should gift wrap it so you can get that "new toy" feeling when you get back.

Good Luck
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Old April 27, 2007, 02:38 PM   #5
junkpile
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Quote:
...secured in a container that only you can open.
Quote:
You could even store it in a bank safe deposit box.
Agreed, this is my plan if I ever have to move somewhere temporarily that does not allow some or any of my firearms.
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Old April 27, 2007, 03:10 PM   #6
Trapp
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I don't know if I can do it...... Temporary may be 4 or more years
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Old April 27, 2007, 10:16 PM   #7
raymond-
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here's the rub, T: in 4 years, one would have to weigh the odds if the state
still allows suppressors...or any other Title 2 items. for the most part, prior/
legal ownership prevails and you'll be entitled to keep possession. if you're
not opposed to relocating, then this is less of a concern.

WA state is where I need to be at the moment (family situation). had I not
purchased several NFA items, i would have lost that chance....as they've
since been declared verboton. Since ex post facto laws aren't usually
invoked, these NFA items remain grandfathered and I retain possession.

afterthought: 4 yrs from now, suppressor technology may have improved
a lot....though no where on par with electronics, so you have to weigh the
outlook vis a vis design improvements
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Old April 28, 2007, 01:05 AM   #8
chris in va
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Skip it. Why spend all that $$$ on something you can't use for 4+ years? Just get one when you get back.
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Old April 28, 2007, 08:37 PM   #9
AmesJainchill
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Why not put the money in the bank or something so you'll have more?
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Old April 29, 2007, 02:37 AM   #10
Legion2600
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Raymond said it best.
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Old April 29, 2007, 06:27 PM   #11
CleverNickname
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Quote:
Since ex post facto laws aren't usually invoked, these NFA items remain grandfathered and I retain possession.
Ex post facto has nothing to do with grandfathering. Ex post facto just means that after a new law is passed the government can't charge you with violating the law prior to the date the law took effect.
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Old April 29, 2007, 07:55 PM   #12
raymond-
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i agree. never meant to imply otherwise. perhaps you wanted me to include
more punctuation? i was never too good with that.
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Old May 5, 2007, 05:44 PM   #13
douglasschuckert
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Suppressor storage...

There is not a lot of knowledge reguarding suppressors... Suppressors and AOW's are the only NFA items that DO NOT REQUIRE an ATF Form 5320.20 to be filed if you move. Say you get stationed in another state that does allow them, you can take it with you, and you are not REQUIRED to notify the ATF about it. It is recommended that you do, but you dont HAVE to.

If you are going to be stationed overseas or to a state that does not allow suppressors... as previously stated you can:

1. Store it in a Bank Safety Deposit Box
2. Give to to a friend to keep for you (provide that person with a copy of the F4 and a hand-signed letter from you giving that person permission and designating them a "responsible person" (ATF key word there).

4. Give it to the local CLEO to torch/cut-up.
5. Turn it in to a local ATF Division Field Office.
6. Sell the sucker on www.gunbroker.com (used silencers sell very quickly). Sell it on gunbroker, and hand it to your C3 dealer to complete all the neccessary paperwork. You can do everything via FedEx. A letter that says what you're doing and that you designate the dealer as a "Responsible Person" will work just fine.


I am ex-Navy. I purchase my first suppressor when I was still on active duty. And my now wife, is active duty with another 8 years to retire. She and I own a gun business that I move with me wherever we go. Its not that big of a deal.

Those of you that doubt what I've said about the 5320.20 form, before you try to argue with me, call your local ATF Field Office. They will tell you the same thing I did. It's *NOT* required for silencers or AOW's. The 922 law specifically says what that form is needed for: SMG's SBR, SBS, & DD (including C&R's).
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Old May 6, 2007, 12:35 AM   #14
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Old May 6, 2007, 12:46 AM   #15
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Sorry, but the back of my form 1 disagrees. You must notify for an address change and it doesn't provide exceptions.

Quote:
The registrant shall notify the NFA Branch, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Washington DC 20226, in writing, of any change to the address in item 3a.
My form 4 disagrees too.

Quote:
Unless currently licensed under the Gun Control Act, the registrant shall notify the NFA Branch, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Washington DC 20226, in writing, of any change to the address in item 2a.
If you move you must provide the new address and if you cross state line you must receive permission. According to the form it would seem that you could transport a suppressor across the state line without permission but I personally wouldn't do it.
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Old May 6, 2007, 03:40 PM   #16
douglasschuckert
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Actual law...

Before people begin beating a "Form" not a legal document pertaining to 'actual law', reference ATF Document 5300.4. This document is what all FFLs/SOT's use to reference the written law, as in enacted by congress... If its a 'gun' law, its in this document.

"Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide".

Silencers & AOW's are *NOT* required to file the ATF Form 5320.20 -

"Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily
Export Certain National Firearms Act (NFA) Firearms"

This form is the ONLY authorized means of *notifying* the BATF&E of a movement or change of address pertaining to (any) NFA items. You can try to write them a letter, but they will still require you to file this form in duplicate.

With that said, reference my original post, saying before you try arguing, look into the actual law. The F4 is not LAW. Its a document that functions as two things only. Registration of the particular item, and to show receipt of a paid tax. It is a Tax document, not a LAW document.

I would not recommend just up and moving, as the ATF recommends people use the form for silencers and AOW's. I know I did with my items... But if you get to the actual brass tacks, its not an absolute requirement.

Will the BATF&E try to make this into an infraction of you are charged with something else? Probably. They witch-hunt. Thats what they do. Would I recommend just up and moving? HELL NO, but at the same token, people need to be informed and know what their actual responsibilities are.

Don’t beat the legal train here. Read up on and annotate what actual law says. Not assuming legalities written on a tax document. Everyone here, which has NFA should be more than familure with what the F4 says! At the same token, should people read what the actual GCA says? It makes sense, to me at least, to learn what actual law says-pertaining to NFA ownership. If I am going to own devices that have such a high probability of landing me in VERY serious legal trouble-I should know, and should WANT to know, the actual law that will be used to try my bony ass.

Ignorance is no excuse to law. I’ve personally called my local ATF office numerous times regarding actual law or requesting clarification of something in this Reference Guide, and to this date, they have ALL been VERY informative and helpful!

People that go out and purchase these items, without knowing the actual laws, are asking for a LOT of trouble…. Its just STUPID! The database regarding what is actually registered and who its registered to, is at BEST 60%! I have a close friend that had to pay SEVERAL thousand in legal fees to protect himself against charges for legally made subguns to which he HAD THE APPROVED FORMS FOR (yes…he was a C2 SOT), but because 3 out of the 4 guns were not in the ATF’s database, they were therefore illegal. He eventually got off on the charges, but is still having to pay his attorney! He’s done nothing wrong. The ATF did, and he has to pay for it….

KNOW WHAT YOU’RE GETTING INTO BEFORE YOU BUY SOMETHING NFA!

DO NOT JUST BASE YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE LAWS ON WHAT THE REGISTRATION FORM SAYS. (not unless you want to become the ATF’s bitch.)
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Old May 6, 2007, 08:06 PM   #17
Hkmp5sd
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douglasschuckert is correct regarding suppressors and AOWs.

Of course, this leaves it up to you to be absolutely sure there are no state and/or local laws prohibiting or restricting these items. If you think federal gun laws are complicated, they are nothing compared to state, city, county and any other country bumkin ordinance found in the US. It's your butt that's in the sling if you screw up.
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Old May 6, 2007, 09:51 PM   #18
douglasschuckert
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State Laws

Thanks MP5!


For all those that *may* not know of these resources, its worth the looksee..


www.packing.org - This focuses on the State/Local level. A WONDERFUL site to see what the laws are. They are VERY proactive on keeping this site uptodate!!

www.titleii.com - One of the BEST resources for eaisyness the NFA community has. Here you can find EVERY aft form you will need to file... ever.
They are in Adobe PDF, and you can fill them out. My last hadwritten F4 took a lot more time than it should because it got sent back due to them not being able to read simple handwriting :-).... The next F4 that I filed, I typed, and it came back real quick! I was supprised! Also a little know fact, the ATF gives a geographical area to an auditor. If you call that person, and get in good with them, your froms have a tendency to be processed a little faster. :-) In this day in age, a Thank you goes a LONG way!
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Old May 12, 2007, 08:59 PM   #19
mxwelch
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I'm glad you have such a wealth of info from your ATF branch because I can get several answers from several different people calling two seperate federal buildings where I live. I could write Washington or the West Va branch but usually I'd like an answer before 4 months have passed.
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