the .308 Winchester and 3031 powder

schotzfyred · October 8, 2020, 03:38 PM

My 1973 Hornady Handbook shows a start load of 38.5 gr 3031 and the Hornady 170 gr flat point bullet for 2400 fps.
Has anyone here loaded for this?
Some places show the flat point at 2200 for a 30-30 load about max for the flat point bullet.
I haven't found any newer info for this bullet/powder reload.

Paul B. · October 8, 2020, 04:05 PM

Many years back when I lived in California, I loaded 170 gr. 30-30 bullets to about 2400, maybe 2450 FPS with 3031 in a 30-06. Good load for hunting deer in the rain forest of extreme northwest California. Wound a deer in that stuff and if it went more than about 25 yards you most likely lost the deer. Kind of rough on meat though.
Paul B.

**44 AMP** · October 8, 2020, 05:23 PM

You probably won't find any other data for that bullet, because so few people use it in the .308 Win.

They don't use it in .308 WIN because (brace yourself) literally, there's no point!

Use the generic data for that weight bullet starting low and adjust as needed.

Not many 170gr slugs for .308 Win, so 180gr data can be a starting point, and will be "safer" than 150gr data,

The people doing the load data for the manuals don't, and can't list every possible combination of bullet and load. They tend to concentrate on the popular, most used bullets and loads for them.

Be aware that loading bullets made for the .30-30 into cases where they go significantly faster than 30-30 speeds changes the impact performance of the bullet, when speed reaches a certain point. For example, driving a .30-30 slug to 3000fps+ possible in a .300 magnum overdrives it, and it acts like a varmint bullet, almost literally "blowing up".

All expanding bullets have a range of speed inside which they work as intended. TO slow, little or no expansion. Too fast and violent "explosive" expansion, and as a result little penetration.

Call the bullet maker if you have questions, they'll happily tell you the speed limits you should stick between for best results.

GeauxTide · October 10, 2020, 10:32 PM

The expansion profile for the 170FN is 2200. For 100-150 yard use, I load 165 Grand Slams for 2500. Drops 'em right there and minimal meat damage. 1/2" exit.

Sharkbite · October 11, 2020, 01:22 AM

There is lots of load data for 175gn bullets. I load 175gn SMK’s with 3031 and IMR 4064. Good results in my FN SPR

Metal god · October 11, 2020, 04:27 AM

Because of the longer baring surface of the heavy flat nose bullet . I would use the heavier bullet data rather than the closer 168/175 grain pointy boat tail bullet data with there much shorter baring services .

**Unclenick** · October 11, 2020, 03:57 PM

The current Hodgdon data shows a starting load of 38 grains of 3031 with a 175 grain bullet. That's so close to the old data you found, I think you can be confident it is safe. If you feel more comfortable, knock another grain off (that equals the starting load for 180-grain bullets). I think the reason for this load velocity is just to keep it within maximum 30-30 velocities, as the bullet is designed for that speed range for expanding without disintegrating.

paknheat · October 18, 2020, 06:10 PM

Anyone using this powder for a 150gn bullet, like say a nosler or Sierra btsp?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

rodfac · October 21, 2020, 07:28 AM

I've downloaded that same bullet (as well as Remington's 170 CoreLoc) for literally a cpl decades in .30-40 Krags & .308's, getting ~2400 fps from the latter. It makes for a slightly softer shooting rifle, and has always been a good combination for KY deer. I've had no problems with over-expansion with through the slats, chest shots, including several a bit farther forward catching the shoulder bones. Remember, there a lot of .30-30's around with the longer "rifle" length bbl. = 24", which will get you close to 2400 fps.

An older Lyman manual lists your load as mid-level for both 180 grain & 168 grain bullets...safe in my opinion and should be a good deer combination. Best Regards, Rod

RC20 · October 23, 2020, 08:19 PM

I have been using it in my 7.5 Swiss with 168 gr Hornady ELD bullet (low 40 grain area)

I bought some 5 years ago in a mixed batch, it looks good and shoots fine.

I am using it as a ref powder as it is quite common across various powders and 7.5 Swiss variety of powders (including oddly the R17 home load) is not great.

It may not be an optimum powder but I am getting 3/4 inch groups out of it. Have to re-look but I think its about the fastest burning powder in the normal 7.5 Swiss/308/30-06 group.

I don't expect powder situation to get better so widen the horizons (I did stockpile powder so I am in good shape for a change)

Bart B. · October 23, 2020, 09:23 PM

Sierra's 308 Win data includes IMR3031

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...-iJ9dWfCjWugsC

Mike / Tx · October 24, 2020, 04:33 AM

Like 44 AMP mentioned, its not so much the powder as the velocity. I have used several powders and bullets including 3031 thru the years for similar loads, mostly though H4895 and Rem RNCL's.

I have a Ruger Compact in .308 that weighs in at 6.5#
scoped and fully loaded. I got it for hunting hogs in thick overgrown river bottom terrain. Using standard loads in most cases was overkill due to shots ranging sometimes in feet rather than yards. That and my grandsons using it to learn as well when they were just tikes.

The lower velocity gave perfect performance and even full loads don't get very fast from the little 16" barrel. Like mentioned use the heavier weight data and work up. Ive used both the 150 and 170gr weights of the CL and some Hornady as well with no issues. Most of the loads are in the 2200ish feet per second range but then again I am keeping distances within 50-75yds usually at most. My middle grandson and I just loaded up 50rds of 150gr RICK's this past week for him to practice and hunt with.

Bart B. · October 24, 2020, 11:13 AM

Military teams, in the 1970's, tried IMR3031 in 7.62 NATO service rifles with Sierra 168 and 180 grain HPMK's. Accuracy was as good as IMR4895 and IMR4064 produced. For 20 to 30 shots.

October 8, 2020, 03:38 PM	#1
schotzfyred Member Join Date: April 25, 2018 Location: NH Posts: 30	the .308 Winchester and 3031 powder My 1973 Hornady Handbook shows a start load of 38.5 gr 3031 and the Hornady 170 gr flat point bullet for 2400 fps. Has anyone here loaded for this? Some places show the flat point at 2200 for a 30-30 load about max for the flat point bullet. I haven't found any newer info for this bullet/powder reload. __________________ "When you got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow" John "Duke" Wayne

October 8, 2020, 04:05 PM	#2
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	Many years back when I lived in California, I loaded 170 gr. 30-30 bullets to about 2400, maybe 2450 FPS with 3031 in a 30-06. Good load for hunting deer in the rain forest of extreme northwest California. Wound a deer in that stuff and if it went more than about 25 yards you most likely lost the deer. Kind of rough on meat though. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

October 8, 2020, 05:23 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	You probably won't find any other data for that bullet, because so few people use it in the .308 Win. They don't use it in .308 WIN because (brace yourself) literally, there's no point! Use the generic data for that weight bullet starting low and adjust as needed. Not many 170gr slugs for .308 Win, so 180gr data can be a starting point, and will be "safer" than 150gr data, The people doing the load data for the manuals don't, and can't list every possible combination of bullet and load. They tend to concentrate on the popular, most used bullets and loads for them. Be aware that loading bullets made for the .30-30 into cases where they go significantly faster than 30-30 speeds changes the impact performance of the bullet, when speed reaches a certain point. For example, driving a .30-30 slug to 3000fps+ possible in a .300 magnum overdrives it, and it acts like a varmint bullet, almost literally "blowing up". All expanding bullets have a range of speed inside which they work as intended. TO slow, little or no expansion. Too fast and violent "explosive" expansion, and as a result little penetration. Call the bullet maker if you have questions, they'll happily tell you the speed limits you should stick between for best results. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 10, 2020, 10:32 PM	#4
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	The expansion profile for the 170FN is 2200. For 100-150 yard use, I load 165 Grand Slams for 2500. Drops 'em right there and minimal meat damage. 1/2" exit. __________________ Reloading For: 223R, 243W, 6.5 GR, 6.5 CM, 260R, 6.5-06, 280R, 7mmRM, 300HAM'R, 308W, 30-06, 338-06, 9mm, 357M, 41M, 44SPL, 44M, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 450BM.

October 11, 2020, 04:27 AM	#6
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Because of the longer baring surface of the heavy flat nose bullet . I would use the heavier bullet data rather than the closer 168/175 grain pointy boat tail bullet data with there much shorter baring services . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

October 11, 2020, 01:22 AM	#5
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	There is lots of load data for 175gn bullets. I load 175gn SMK’s with 3031 and IMR 4064. Good results in my FN SPR

October 11, 2020, 03:57 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The current Hodgdon data shows a starting load of 38 grains of 3031 with a 175 grain bullet. That's so close to the old data you found, I think you can be confident it is safe. If you feel more comfortable, knock another grain off (that equals the starting load for 180-grain bullets). I think the reason for this load velocity is just to keep it within maximum 30-30 velocities, as the bullet is designed for that speed range for expanding without disintegrating. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 18, 2020, 06:10 PM	#8
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 334	Anyone using this powder for a 150gn bullet, like say a nosler or Sierra btsp? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

October 21, 2020, 07:28 AM	#9
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	I've downloaded that same bullet (as well as Remington's 170 CoreLoc) for literally a cpl decades in .30-40 Krags & .308's, getting ~2400 fps from the latter. It makes for a slightly softer shooting rifle, and has always been a good combination for KY deer. I've had no problems with over-expansion with through the slats, chest shots, including several a bit farther forward catching the shoulder bones. Remember, there a lot of .30-30's around with the longer "rifle" length bbl. = 24", which will get you close to 2400 fps. An older Lyman manual lists your load as mid-level for both 180 grain & 168 grain bullets...safe in my opinion and should be a good deer combination. Best Regards, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

October 23, 2020, 08:19 PM	#10
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I have been using it in my 7.5 Swiss with 168 gr Hornady ELD bullet (low 40 grain area) I bought some 5 years ago in a mixed batch, it looks good and shoots fine. I am using it as a ref powder as it is quite common across various powders and 7.5 Swiss variety of powders (including oddly the R17 home load) is not great. It may not be an optimum powder but I am getting 3/4 inch groups out of it. Have to re-look but I think its about the fastest burning powder in the normal 7.5 Swiss/308/30-06 group. I don't expect powder situation to get better so widen the horizons (I did stockpile powder so I am in good shape for a change) __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

October 23, 2020, 09:23 PM	#11
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Sierra's 308 Win data includes IMR3031 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...-iJ9dWfCjWugsC

October 24, 2020, 04:33 AM	#12
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Like 44 AMP mentioned, its not so much the powder as the velocity. I have used several powders and bullets including 3031 thru the years for similar loads, mostly though H4895 and Rem RNCL's. I have a Ruger Compact in .308 that weighs in at 6.5# scoped and fully loaded. I got it for hunting hogs in thick overgrown river bottom terrain. Using standard loads in most cases was overkill due to shots ranging sometimes in feet rather than yards. That and my grandsons using it to learn as well when they were just tikes. The lower velocity gave perfect performance and even full loads don't get very fast from the little 16" barrel. Like mentioned use the heavier weight data and work up. Ive used both the 150 and 170gr weights of the CL and some Hornady as well with no issues. Most of the loads are in the 2200ish feet per second range but then again I am keeping distances within 50-75yds usually at most. My middle grandson and I just loaded up 50rds of 150gr RICK's this past week for him to practice and hunt with. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

October 24, 2020, 11:13 AM	#13
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Military teams, in the 1970's, tried IMR3031 in 7.62 NATO service rifles with Sierra 168 and 180 grain HPMK's. Accuracy was as good as IMR4895 and IMR4064 produced. For 20 to 30 shots.