308win & CFE223

[Chisel]

Unable to get Varget and 4320. Took a chance and bought 2 lbs of CFE223. Was shooting 4064 w/ 155 Palma's. After reading some troubling things about CFE223, I decided to start out with some 208gr repack's I had laying around. Hodgdon web site listed loads from 40.6gr to 43.7gr. Best load was at 41.0, just about at min. At 43.0 I had a hard bolt lift and a flattened primer. Primers were large pistol, can't get primers ether. Question, anybody got loads for 168 MK's w/ CFE223 ???; anybody have experience w/ CFE223 ???.

[Bart B.]

Do not use pistol primers in rifle cases.

[Chisel]

Thanks, but why? Are they hotter than rifle primers? They're only .003" shorter.

[ligonierbill]

Pistol primers are softer, not designed for rifle pressures. Folks do use small pistol primers in 22 Hornet, but that's a low pressure round. Conversely, small rifle primers are specified for the high pressure 454 Casull. Regarding CFE223, it works well in my 308 with 165 SGK and 130 Barnes.

[std7mag]

As mentioned with the primers, pistol primers can't handle the pressures of modern bottle necked cartridges.

As for CFE223,
I tried it in 308, 7mm-08, 223.
Gave decent velocities. But couldn't get ES/SD to settle down anywhere near where i wanted. If i remember correctly ES was in the mid 40s, with SD in the 20s.
Not good for shooting 600 yards +.
Many reports of it being particularly temp sensitive. Don't do load development in cold weather.

[Chisel]

Thx

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by Chisel

Thanks, but why? Are they hotter than rifle primers? They're only .003" shorter.

Ask the company making those primers why they're not safe for rifle ammo.

Do you know how to compare peak pressures between handgun and rifle cartridges?

[Unclenick]

The official difference in height is 0.009", but the tolerances are so generous that the minimum LR primer height and the maximum LP primer height overlap by 0.003". So a physical fit is possible with some lots. However, large rifle primer cups are typically made of 0.027" cartridge brass (C2600 brass). The large pistol primers use about 0.020" cartridge brass, IIRC. But even if I'm not recalling the exact pistol primer thickness correctly, it is thinner material to enable the lower energy firing pin strike from a handgun to set them off reliably. That thinner brass can pierce at rifle pressures, and a pierced primer cup results in high pressure gas impinging on your bolt face, which cuts little pits into it. There is a lower but real possibility of a complete primer blowout that damages your bolt or your extractor more severly.

Anyway, the bottom line is that there is a reason for primers being labeled for pistols or for rifles that isn't just about their exact size or how big a spark they make.

[Metal god]

I’ve had similar issues with ES/SD using CFE 223 in 308 just as std7mag did . Accuracy was good velocity was very good but my velocities were all over the place . More specifically from range trip to Range trip they changed based on ambient temperature or if I left the box of ammo in the sun etc. it was the first powder I ever used that I really noticed the temperature sensitivity .