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Old September 25, 2020, 04:25 PM   #26
dgludwig
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I agree with seanc. I spent 34 years in le and sent a whole lot of lead downrange in "tactical" training and re-qualifications as well as competing in many Bullseye matches, all the while keeping my sights (especially the front one) looking sharp and the target looking "fuzzy". That was the mantra then and I've found it to be very difficult now transitioning to a laser sight where the focus is on the admittedly "natural" place the mind wants the eyes to look at-the target. For the majority who don't have to abandon decades of training and practice, I'm sure the laser sight is very useful.

I also very much concur with Bill DeShivs and shaft: nobody in their right mind is going to look at the bouncing ball of light on their chest while somebody is either aiming at them or shooting at them. Anybody who doubts this, ask yourself honestly: would you?
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Old September 25, 2020, 04:50 PM   #27
stephen426
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While it is true that people don't normally look at their chest during an altercation, they may look at their chest if they notice a laser beam coming from your weapon. The deterrent value of a laser is only useful if the decision has not already been made to fire the weapon. If your attacker is already attacking you with a contact weapon or assaulting you, then they would also be close enough to grab your gun. At that point, you need to have really made up your mind whether you are in a shoot or don't shoot situation.

The most plausible situation is that a bad guy pulls a contact weapon and is still at some distance away. He is threatening you, but has not initiated the actual attack. You draw your weapon and tell him to back the hell off. You either point the gun at the low ready where the laser is clearly visible in front of you, or the bad guy notices the laser beam coming from the front of your weapon.

Either way, I prefer having the ability to have "theoretical point of aim" as long as I do my part. I can concentrate on the target if the surrounding is dark and the front sights are hard to see. Overall, I believe that the pros outweigh the cons.
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Old September 25, 2020, 05:14 PM   #28
dgludwig
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Same question: would you take the time or even have reason to look at your chest "if you noticed a laser beam coming from a weapon"? We're not cats-at least, I'm not .
Just looking at the wrong end of a gun would seem to me to be enough if confirmation of a deadly threat is what you're looking for.
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Old September 26, 2020, 12:37 AM   #29
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Not a fan other than as an aid in learning instinct shooting. In the vast majority of SD situations if you take time to find little dots, or even acquire that sight picture you have gotten used to on a stationary piece of paper, the fight will be over, and probably not in your favor.
Especially if that dot is bouncing around, being blocked by obstackles, or hard to see. Then there is the fact that your attacker is most likely also bouncing around. Making it even harder to see. Also, in a completely dark environment, that dot some questionably claim will scare an attacker away will also provide a guiding light right to you. In a HD situation in the dark of night a bright flashlight illuminating the attacker while temporarily blinding them would be much better.
Then there is the malfunction possibility. Circuits and batteries have a way of failing at the most inappropriate time!
In an opposite way to what many have said here, a laser can be useful in limited circumstances as a backup to point and shoot. But shouldn't be relied upon as the first method of aiming.
I did put a CT Laserguard on my Remington R51. Just because it looked like it needed one there. LOL
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Old September 26, 2020, 07:42 PM   #30
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DV50
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That's the experience prison guards have had.
That's the kind of info I was asking about.

stephen426
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threatening you, but has not initiated the actual attack.
This is what I had in mind. If you intentionally try to get the bad actor's attention with the laser, prove to him that you have your sights on him, that might deter further bad behavior. I'd just like to see some more (beyond DV50's experience) real-world verification that it has worked.
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Old September 28, 2020, 12:18 AM   #31
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I think some of you guys are really underestimating the usefulness of lasers. You talk about trying to find bouncing dots on moving targets while being blocked by obstacles in low light situations. How the heck would you even see your sights if that were the case???

I know that point shooting is a bad word for some, but if you practice enough, the gun becomes like an extension of your hand and you can be pretty darn close just by point shooting. The dot on your target just confirms your point of aim and let’s you focus on your target rather than being tunnel focused on your front sights.
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Old September 28, 2020, 12:28 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by reteach View Post
OK, going to revive my own thread here. JERRYS wrote:



I've seen this on another forum, too. It makes sense and I think it's probably true. But my next question is, has anyone seen this to be the case in a real-life situation? Links to articles or personal experience welcome. I would like for this to be true, but need to see some verification.
sorry for the late reply. in my experience when the "bad guy" sees the red dots from a taser on them or on the ground in front of them when the officer holds taser at low ready.... they more often than not take a more compliant stance because they know what happens next. now, if a taser does that, and the bad guy knows its "just" a taser, I find it reasonable to think a firearm with such an accessory will be at the least equally as effective.
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Old September 28, 2020, 03:11 AM   #33
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I primarily use a Red Dot sight on my competition guns but have played with a Laser as well. I like the Green Laser. Easier to pick up on a bright day. You can find lasers very cheap to try one out and see if it's for you.

I can shoot very well with mine out to 25 yards. You have to practice more with a Laser because of any shaking you have will be magnified compared to a Red Dot.
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Old September 28, 2020, 08:49 PM   #34
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@AzShooter,
Is that a heavily modified Ruger .22/45 with Volquartzen parts? Looks really cool.
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Old September 28, 2020, 10:16 PM   #35
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Stephen426: Yes. It has all Volquartzen parts. Accurizing Kit, Bolt, LLV Barrel and Compensator. It also has a Striplin Thumb Rest and Safety from Tandemkross.

Thanks for the compliment. It started out as a 22/45 but Brownell's, Tandemkross and Volquartsen had the parts to improve it.
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Old September 29, 2020, 06:19 PM   #36
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As a teaching aid to better trigger manipulation, I've found the CTC laser grips very useful. That bouncing dot really shows you what your finger placement and trigger squeeze (or jerk) is really doing in a way that's easy to see. I don't see the laser dot as a very useful defensive tool, when on the street. In the house, they may have their use however. Rod
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Old September 29, 2020, 07:15 PM   #37
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How the heck would you even see your sights if that were the case???
You just answered your own question!
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if you practice enough, the gun becomes like an extension of your hand and you can be pretty darn close just by point shooting.
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