38 Auto nickle cased ammo from pre-1965

HisSoldier · August 9, 2015, 07:52 PM

Hi,
My pastor generously gave me a box of old 38 Auto ammo. The box is yellow ith "Western" in red on a blue band at the top, below that in the yellow area it says "Super-X" and below that in blue "38 Automatic (oilproof)", at the bottom is "Lubaloy" in red text,.
The best I've been able to date this by searching on line is pre 1965, but maybe pre 1950, I've seen that too.
My question is, assuming it was loaded early enough the power could have been near or at what we call 38 Super today. This, of course, if it is even safe to shoot.
So, what I'm wondering is, based on my description of the box, would the date be as late as 1965?
I've read enough to believe the case is the same as what we call 38 Super today, so I should be able to load it to 38 Super loadings.

Roughedge · August 10, 2015, 06:14 AM

Read this and see if it helps.http://38super.net/Pages/History.html

**Mike Irwin** · August 10, 2015, 07:00 AM

That style box was, I think dropped shortly after World War II. In fact it may not have been used after Western resumed civilian production as the war wound down.

I know it was not in use in 1965.

"My question is, assuming it was loaded early enough the power could have been near or at what we call 38 Super today."

No.

The .38 Super was developed as a high-pressure loading in the .38 Auto case in the late 1920s for Colt 1911 automatics.

It was never intended to be used in Colt's earlier guns.

Ammo loaded in the early days of the cartridge was often marked (by Winchester) as the .38 Auto Super Speed.

Later, because of the confusion, the name was simply shortened to .38 Super.

Boxes marked .38 Auto, but with no mention of "super speed" were loaded to traditional .38 Auto ballistics.

F. Guffey · August 10, 2015, 07:53 AM

Quote:

"Super-X"

I use the 'Super-X' head stamp when sorting cases. Western used Super-X, Super-Speed, WCC, WW etc.

Roughedge, good link.

F. Guffey

**Mike Irwin** · August 10, 2015, 08:13 AM

Unlike Super Speed, Super-X is simply a trademark and signifies nothing about the cartridge loading.

Prior to World War I the "X" was actually a Maltese cross, but with the advent of the war and strong anti-German sentiment, the cross, associated with Germany, as changed to the Super-X logo.

F. Guffey · August 10, 2015, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Unlike Super Speed, Super-X is

I have cases with head stamps that read Super Speed, I have cases with head stamps that read super-X. I still have a few of the boxes the cases came with fiber dividers. Again, for me it is another way to sort cases. Then there were Peters, UMC-Rem and later R-P.

F. Guffey

**Mike Irwin** · August 10, 2015, 11:09 AM

When it comes to handgun cases, the only sorting paradigm I've ever used is caliber, and then whether or not the cases are nickle plated.

F. Guffey · August 10, 2015, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Unlike Super Speed, Super-X is simply a trademark and signifies nothing about the cartridge loading.

I have 30/06 cases with Super Speed head stamps, I also have 30/06 cases with Super-X head stamps. When sorting after tumbling I want my cases back with the group they started with.

F. Guffey

August 9, 2015, 07:52 PM	#1
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	38 Auto nickle cased ammo from pre-1965 Hi, My pastor generously gave me a box of old 38 Auto ammo. The box is yellow ith "Western" in red on a blue band at the top, below that in the yellow area it says "Super-X" and below that in blue "38 Automatic (oilproof)", at the bottom is "Lubaloy" in red text,. The best I've been able to date this by searching on line is pre 1965, but maybe pre 1950, I've seen that too. My question is, assuming it was loaded early enough the power could have been near or at what we call 38 Super today. This, of course, if it is even safe to shoot. So, what I'm wondering is, based on my description of the box, would the date be as late as 1965? I've read enough to believe the case is the same as what we call 38 Super today, so I should be able to load it to 38 Super loadings. __________________ CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.

August 10, 2015, 06:14 AM	#2
Roughedge Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Location: Monroe,NC Posts: 669	Read this and see if it helps.http://38super.net/Pages/History.html __________________ The man that die's with the most stuff win's!

August 10, 2015, 07:00 AM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	That style box was, I think dropped shortly after World War II. In fact it may not have been used after Western resumed civilian production as the war wound down. I know it was not in use in 1965. "My question is, assuming it was loaded early enough the power could have been near or at what we call 38 Super today." No. The .38 Super was developed as a high-pressure loading in the .38 Auto case in the late 1920s for Colt 1911 automatics. It was never intended to be used in Colt's earlier guns. Ammo loaded in the early days of the cartridge was often marked (by Winchester) as the .38 Auto Super Speed. Later, because of the confusion, the name was simply shortened to .38 Super. Boxes marked .38 Auto, but with no mention of "super speed" were loaded to traditional .38 Auto ballistics. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. Last edited by Mike Irwin; August 10, 2015 at 08:38 PM.

August 10, 2015, 08:13 AM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Unlike Super Speed, Super-X is simply a trademark and signifies nothing about the cartridge loading. Prior to World War I the "X" was actually a Maltese cross, but with the advent of the war and strong anti-German sentiment, the cross, associated with Germany, as changed to the Super-X logo. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 10, 2015, 11:09 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	When it comes to handgun cases, the only sorting paradigm I've ever used is caliber, and then whether or not the cases are nickle plated. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.