Bp pistol from rifle

littlephil · December 10, 2015, 09:48 AM

Hello all, don't usually hang out here too much, but I thought maybe this would be better suited here than the smithy. So kind of an oddball question, but has anybody ever built a black powder pistol out of a (muzzleloader) rifle? I have an older CVA (I believe) percussion rifle sitting around that someone at some point twisted the breach plug of of. I was going to drill it out and put a new one in, but from the looks of it, it's one solid piece and not threaded like normal. This is a real cheap model with a synthetic stock, so I suppose it's probably easier and cheaper to manufacture than threading for a plug. Anyway, I had the thought of chopping the barrel in half and using it and the lockwork to make a pistol. Probably not the easiest project, but I'm sure it can't be too hard. Has anyone else done something like this? The only real downfall that I can think of is that the dovetails are already there for everything and almost none of them would likely work. Any constructive criticism is appreciated. Worst case scenario I guess I'll just order a pistol barrel at some point. Thanks in advance.

Pahoo · December 10, 2015, 11:25 AM

Quote:

I have an older CVA (I believe) percussion rifle sitting around that someone at some point twisted the breach plug of of. I was going to drill it out and put a new one in, but from the looks of it, it's one solid piece and not threaded like normal.

You pose and interesting question and. I have a pretty good idea on the model you have as I ran into this same problem and speaks to the avoidance of trying to remove a breech plug. I too encountered a twisted off breech plug. It is a threaded plug and as a rifle, will have limited use. ......

Be Safe !!!

**4V50 Gary** · December 10, 2015, 11:46 AM

You would not be the first person to chop down a barrel. You might want to figure out how many pistol barrels you can get out of it. Chop what you need for your project and sell the rest.

DD4lifeusmc · December 10, 2015, 11:51 AM

Most (maybe not all) CVA traditional side locks.
You have to remove the nipple drum first
then the breech plug.
But CVA never really meant for it to be removed anyway.

Many of them included what is called the patent breech.
I would imagine the entire thing could be salvaged.
But you would need a new breech plug.
Also at the factory the plug was screwed in first. Then the side hole for the flash channel drilled, then tapped for the drum.

While you could put a blank plug in your ignition may be unreliable and the ball likely won't seat as deep as before.
You'd have to eyeball and measure it yourself.

But as to the basic question can you make one, yes it can be done.
I have a barrel here that is complete it is about 16 inches long
has some surface rust I can mostly clean off but would make a nice project gun.
Has the T/C style fixed nipple boss

littlephil · December 11, 2015, 02:45 PM

Thanks for the replies so far. I measured the barrel last night, and if I cut off the breach end, I can get a 24" barrel. This in turn will give me two 12" barrels to work with, roughly. I did some checking again and I can get a dovetail tool for around $40. I'll probably pick one up in the near future, so either way I go with this, I can cut new dovetails for everything. If I do wind up doing this, I'll be sure and post it. Thanks again for the help!

kwhi43 · December 11, 2015, 06:08 PM

This has been tried before with very poor results. The problem is that probably
the twist rate in your old CVA is 1-48. This is much too slow for pistol work.
You did not say what caliber, I'm guessing it's a 45. If so the twist rate should
be 1-22. You will find most all custom pistol barrels are that twist in45 cal.
ect, Green Mountain, Ed Rayl. so on. Your idea will work, but if I put that much
labor into something like that I would want it to shoot accurate. If it is a smaller
caliber say 32 or 36 then the twist rate should be 1-16. Just order you a barrel
from Tip Curtis down in Tennessee and you will be good to go.

**4V50 Gary** · December 11, 2015, 10:25 PM

I didn't even think of twist. I was thinking of the mechanics of the work. Kudos.

littlephil · December 12, 2015, 04:16 PM

Hmm, never thought about the twist rate. I've never been around bp pistols so I I've never heard what twists they use. Mine is actually a .50 cal cva wolf. I haven't looked to see what twist it is for sure yet, but I had a Charles Daly that was exactly the same except for a wood stock. It had a fast enough twist to stabilize sabots. But if I remember correctly, bp rifles use a 1:48 twist for shooting conicals and a 1:77 (?) for round balls. So I guess either way it'll be too slow for what I want. Of course I could figure out a way to hone them out after they're cut down and make smooth bore pistols out of them. Anyone know what the next step up from a .50 would be in smooth bore?

December 10, 2015, 09:48 AM	#1
littlephil Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2014 Location: Coshocton, Ohio Posts: 231	Bp pistol from rifle Hello all, don't usually hang out here too much, but I thought maybe this would be better suited here than the smithy. So kind of an oddball question, but has anybody ever built a black powder pistol out of a (muzzleloader) rifle? I have an older CVA (I believe) percussion rifle sitting around that someone at some point twisted the breach plug of of. I was going to drill it out and put a new one in, but from the looks of it, it's one solid piece and not threaded like normal. This is a real cheap model with a synthetic stock, so I suppose it's probably easier and cheaper to manufacture than threading for a plug. Anyway, I had the thought of chopping the barrel in half and using it and the lockwork to make a pistol. Probably not the easiest project, but I'm sure it can't be too hard. Has anyone else done something like this? The only real downfall that I can think of is that the dovetails are already there for everything and almost none of them would likely work. Any constructive criticism is appreciated. Worst case scenario I guess I'll just order a pistol barrel at some point. Thanks in advance.

December 10, 2015, 11:46 AM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	You would not be the first person to chop down a barrel. You might want to figure out how many pistol barrels you can get out of it. Chop what you need for your project and sell the rest. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 11, 2015, 10:25 PM	#7
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	I didn't even think of twist. I was thinking of the mechanics of the work. Kudos. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 10, 2015, 11:51 AM	#4
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	Most (maybe not all) CVA traditional side locks. You have to remove the nipple drum first then the breech plug. But CVA never really meant for it to be removed anyway. Many of them included what is called the patent breech. I would imagine the entire thing could be salvaged. But you would need a new breech plug. Also at the factory the plug was screwed in first. Then the side hole for the flash channel drilled, then tapped for the drum. While you could put a blank plug in your ignition may be unreliable and the ball likely won't seat as deep as before. You'd have to eyeball and measure it yourself. But as to the basic question can you make one, yes it can be done. I have a barrel here that is complete it is about 16 inches long has some surface rust I can mostly clean off but would make a nice project gun. Has the T/C style fixed nipple boss

December 11, 2015, 02:45 PM	#5
littlephil Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2014 Location: Coshocton, Ohio Posts: 231	Thanks for the replies so far. I measured the barrel last night, and if I cut off the breach end, I can get a 24" barrel. This in turn will give me two 12" barrels to work with, roughly. I did some checking again and I can get a dovetail tool for around $40. I'll probably pick one up in the near future, so either way I go with this, I can cut new dovetails for everything. If I do wind up doing this, I'll be sure and post it. Thanks again for the help!

December 11, 2015, 06:08 PM	#6
kwhi43 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,393	This has been tried before with very poor results. The problem is that probably the twist rate in your old CVA is 1-48. This is much too slow for pistol work. You did not say what caliber, I'm guessing it's a 45. If so the twist rate should be 1-22. You will find most all custom pistol barrels are that twist in45 cal. ect, Green Mountain, Ed Rayl. so on. Your idea will work, but if I put that much labor into something like that I would want it to shoot accurate. If it is a smaller caliber say 32 or 36 then the twist rate should be 1-16. Just order you a barrel from Tip Curtis down in Tennessee and you will be good to go.

December 12, 2015, 04:16 PM	#8
littlephil Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2014 Location: Coshocton, Ohio Posts: 231	Hmm, never thought about the twist rate. I've never been around bp pistols so I I've never heard what twists they use. Mine is actually a .50 cal cva wolf. I haven't looked to see what twist it is for sure yet, but I had a Charles Daly that was exactly the same except for a wood stock. It had a fast enough twist to stabilize sabots. But if I remember correctly, bp rifles use a 1:48 twist for shooting conicals and a 1:77 (?) for round balls. So I guess either way it'll be too slow for what I want. Of course I could figure out a way to hone them out after they're cut down and make smooth bore pistols out of them. Anyone know what the next step up from a .50 would be in smooth bore?