9mm loads?

vbk1969 · May 19, 2009, 09:01 PM

This is what i have 9mm luger with pmc and remington cases with 4.1g of titegroup with a hornady 124g hp/xtp oal of 1.090 with a pmc small pistol primer. The question is does this seem like a good load? Modern reloading #2 shows 4.1g of titegroup for a 124g jacketed bullet so that is what i loaded it to. But was just wondering if there was any difference in the xtp than just the jackted bullet there listing. Lyman doesnt show one for a 124g only 125 would that be the same? Lyman says start with 3.8g of titegroup for a 125g jacketed hp. any info would be helpful thanks Brent

FrankenMauser · May 19, 2009, 09:16 PM

The Lee manual is not a good resource for beginners' reloading data.

Loading from a source (including internet data) that only lists a single charge weight, is a bad idea.

Although no two bullets are alike; the Lyman data is your safest bet. As always; it's best to have multiple data sources on hand.

vbk1969 · May 19, 2009, 09:43 PM

Thanks for the reply Franken. So i should drop back down to the 3.8g of titegroup the lymans has listed for the 125g bullet even though the bullets i have are 124g xtp. I was wondering why that lee had a larger starting charge than the lyman but i figured since i had the 124g that i should go with it. But i will drop down to the lyman data and try them. Thanks again Brent

Randy 1911 · May 20, 2009, 12:35 AM

When a data source only list one load, it usally means that is a max load. This means that you should back off the amount by 10% to start. Read the footnotes in the manual.

glokmunkee · May 20, 2009, 04:26 AM

Can I ask if you have measured the bullet and how long it is? I would like to know cause it saves me buying them.

the load sounds solid but weak. I have some good data from lee lyman and remmington that support that 4.1 gr of t/g with a 124 gr jrn is a starting load. I loaded a bunch of test rounds at 3.7 ( which more ave out to be 3.8 of t/g) and got an ave of 981 fps from a jrn 124gr. @ 1.090" c.o.l., from a 3.5" bbl. so reducing your charge is going to give less than desirable ballistic performance. ( my spread from a rest was 2" @ 15 yds for ten rounds, tightest group being under an inch. but it is below the power floor. )to bring it up to a power factor of 127000 I was going to up the charge to 3.9 and should give me an ave. of 1020fps @ that c.o.l.,. (however I am going to seat mine to 1.135" because of the reduction of the snap in recoil. SO i may be using 4.1!) That bullet should expand best around 1150 to 1175?? but gel would prove that. So shouldn't you be using a slower burning powder to reach those speeds with that bullet weight? And I dont know, but all the data I have contends that you wont even be close to that velocity even at the c.o.l. you list which is the minimum. And that should be treated like a max charge as well. as in work down to it. Small changes produce large results in high pressure cases like 9mm. I am very interested as to what they clock in at. SO I hope you shoot some as I feel that you are safe to do so. However, the max velocity you should load t/g to is 1136 ave? Wrong powder for the bullet. that is my verdict. I want my bullets to move slow, that bullet however wants to go fast, ( power pistol, w231, AA#2) SECOND and i am not trying to assume that you don know this but I want to stress that you dont seat a rn after a hp round thinking they will be at the same depth. The rn as I am sure you are aware will then create a dangerous pressure situation as it will be about .045 " (or more) deeper than the hp. Measure twice k'b less!! hope this helps. and if you dont mind posting an update.

vbk1969 · May 20, 2009, 04:52 AM

The Lee manual list 4.1g of titegroup as the starting load and 4.4g as the max load for a jacketed bullet of 124g. The Lyman manual list a starting load of 3.8g of titegroup for starting load and 4.2g as a max load for a 125g jacketed hp. The bullet measures .572 in length .355 dia. and weighs 124g. So that is why i was going with the Lee manual because it had the bullet weight i was using. Still would like to know does the 1g make a diff. in the bullet weight? thanks p.s these are not round nose bullets they are jacketed hollow points.

glokmunkee · May 20, 2009, 05:20 AM

only when you are reaching max pressures. otherwise you have some play room but not much, ( i.e the diff in starting and max loads is .3 gr. not many powder drops are that accurate and for that reason choose to use a more suitable powder than trying to toy with max load outs) the load you describe is ok by my own testing which is real world and by other sources I just think it will be weak as far as bullet performance is concerned (THE goal of hp loading... so make gel! (: ) . Thank you for the measurements!!

May 19, 2009, 09:01 PM	#1
vbk1969 Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: North MS Posts: 58	9mm loads? This is what i have 9mm luger with pmc and remington cases with 4.1g of titegroup with a hornady 124g hp/xtp oal of 1.090 with a pmc small pistol primer. The question is does this seem like a good load? Modern reloading #2 shows 4.1g of titegroup for a 124g jacketed bullet so that is what i loaded it to. But was just wondering if there was any difference in the xtp than just the jackted bullet there listing. Lyman doesnt show one for a 124g only 125 would that be the same? Lyman says start with 3.8g of titegroup for a 125g jacketed hp. any info would be helpful thanks Brent

May 20, 2009, 12:35 AM	#4
Randy 1911 Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Location: Western Arkansas Posts: 273	When a data source only list one load, it usally means that is a max load. This means that you should back off the amount by 10% to start. Read the footnotes in the manual. __________________ Been Reloading 27 Years NRA Member Member Old Fort Gun Club www.ofgc.org

May 20, 2009, 04:26 AM	#5
glokmunkee Member Join Date: April 25, 2009 Posts: 50	Can I ask if you have measured the bullet and how long it is? I would like to know cause it saves me buying them. the load sounds solid but weak. I have some good data from lee lyman and remmington that support that 4.1 gr of t/g with a 124 gr jrn is a starting load. I loaded a bunch of test rounds at 3.7 ( which more ave out to be 3.8 of t/g) and got an ave of 981 fps from a jrn 124gr. @ 1.090" c.o.l., from a 3.5" bbl. so reducing your charge is going to give less than desirable ballistic performance. ( my spread from a rest was 2" @ 15 yds for ten rounds, tightest group being under an inch. but it is below the power floor. )to bring it up to a power factor of 127000 I was going to up the charge to 3.9 and should give me an ave. of 1020fps @ that c.o.l.,. (however I am going to seat mine to 1.135" because of the reduction of the snap in recoil. SO i may be using 4.1!) That bullet should expand best around 1150 to 1175?? but gel would prove that. So shouldn't you be using a slower burning powder to reach those speeds with that bullet weight? And I dont know, but all the data I have contends that you wont even be close to that velocity even at the c.o.l. you list which is the minimum. And that should be treated like a max charge as well. as in work down to it. Small changes produce large results in high pressure cases like 9mm. I am very interested as to what they clock in at. SO I hope you shoot some as I feel that you are safe to do so. However, the max velocity you should load t/g to is 1136 ave? Wrong powder for the bullet. that is my verdict. I want my bullets to move slow, that bullet however wants to go fast, ( power pistol, w231, AA#2) SECOND and i am not trying to assume that you don know this but I want to stress that you dont seat a rn after a hp round thinking they will be at the same depth. The rn as I am sure you are aware will then create a dangerous pressure situation as it will be about .045 " (or more) deeper than the hp. Measure twice k'b less!! hope this helps. and if you dont mind posting an update. __________________ Gimme Th'm Nannerz Last edited by glokmunkee; May 20, 2009 at 05:05 AM.

May 20, 2009, 05:20 AM	#7
glokmunkee Member Join Date: April 25, 2009 Posts: 50	only when you are reaching max pressures. otherwise you have some play room but not much, ( i.e the diff in starting and max loads is .3 gr. not many powder drops are that accurate and for that reason choose to use a more suitable powder than trying to toy with max load outs) the load you describe is ok by my own testing which is real world and by other sources I just think it will be weak as far as bullet performance is concerned (THE goal of hp loading... so make gel! (: ) . Thank you for the measurements!! __________________ Gimme Th'm Nannerz

May 19, 2009, 09:16 PM	#2
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	The Lee manual is not a good resource for beginners' reloading data. Loading from a source (including internet data) that only lists a single charge weight, is a bad idea. Although no two bullets are alike; the Lyman data is your safest bet. As always; it's best to have multiple data sources on hand.

May 19, 2009, 09:43 PM	#3
vbk1969 Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: North MS Posts: 58	Thanks for the reply Franken. So i should drop back down to the 3.8g of titegroup the lymans has listed for the 125g bullet even though the bullets i have are 124g xtp. I was wondering why that lee had a larger starting charge than the lyman but i figured since i had the 124g that i should go with it. But i will drop down to the lyman data and try them. Thanks again Brent

May 20, 2009, 04:52 AM	#6
vbk1969 Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: North MS Posts: 58	The Lee manual list 4.1g of titegroup as the starting load and 4.4g as the max load for a jacketed bullet of 124g. The Lyman manual list a starting load of 3.8g of titegroup for starting load and 4.2g as a max load for a 125g jacketed hp. The bullet measures .572 in length .355 dia. and weighs 124g. So that is why i was going with the Lee manual because it had the bullet weight i was using. Still would like to know does the 1g make a diff. in the bullet weight? thanks p.s these are not round nose bullets they are jacketed hollow points.