Savage Mark II 22LR - Scope needs to be zeroed with different ammo - Page 2

marcooool · January 24, 2018, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picher

What do you want to do with your rifle, just shoot from the bench, use it for plinking, offhand shooting, hunting? I've shot a lot of .22s from the bench, both testing ammo and in competition, but have shot a lot more offhand and hunting. Offhand shooting with a good sporter, either hunting or target practice on metal silhouettes, etc. is much more fun and great practice for turkey shoots and hunting.

At 50 yards, I can usually keep all my offhand shots under 2", at 50 feet, I've made groups under 1/2 and regularly shoot at postal stickers, which are about 5/8", though I'm getting worse instead of better at my age.

To make the most out of the .22LR when hunting and plinking, I zero at about 50 yards and anything shot within that range is in deep do-do. I don't usually see small game beyond 50 yards in the woods and the killing power drops off considerably at 100, not to mention scary wind deflection.

I shoot in an indoor range, 25yd, sitting in front of a small table with a bipod. It's mainly bullseye.

My problem with CCI SV is that out of 5 shot group, I can normally have 4 in a half inch group but in most cases I will have one flier to make the 5 shots a whole inch group. I don't know it's the ammo or just my poor inconsistency (I started shooting last year November). I will try some other ammo. I read someone has good experience with Winchester M22, smaller group than CCI SV with bolt gun so will give it a try.

My local LGS have good supply of CCI HV, CCI SV, Blazer and Win M22.

Picher · January 29, 2018, 01:58 PM

I hope you find a place to shoot farther than 25 yards. That gets boring after a while.

Also, shooting with a bipod and no rear bag is a limiting factor, since shoulder pressure, right hand pressure, and varied bipod stance can all affect consistency. You should get a solid front rest and rear bag, then learn how to be more consistent in your holds.

Perhaps your rifle could be improved to be more consistent, once you find the ammo it likes best. Half-inch at 25 yards would be only a bit larger than 1/2" at 50 yards, which isn't bad for an unimproved sporter, but really good-shooting rifle, should shoot closer to 1/4" groups at 50 yards...outdoors, dealing with wind/mirage, etc.

Also, there are some good benchrest shooting guides available on the Internet and reading them would help you to be a better shooter.

Regarding .22 target ammo: I found inconsistencies in the same high-priced match ammo from lot-to-lot. Some $20/box ammo had flyers that cost points in competition, so your chances of finding $5 a box ammo to shoot consistent 1/4" groups at 50 yards is maybe 1 in 100 tries, but at 25 yards, 1/4" is quite possible with CCI SV or other similarly-priced ammo. Fiocchi Biathlon shot well in my rifles.

Good luck and keep experimenting in all aspects of accuracy endeavors.

marcooool · January 30, 2018, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picher

I hope you find a place to shoot farther than 25 yards. That gets boring after a while.

Also, shooting with a bipod and no rear bag is a limiting factor, since shoulder pressure, right hand pressure, and varied bipod stance can all affect consistency. You should get a solid front rest and rear bag, then learn how to be more consistent in your holds.

Perhaps your rifle could be improved to be more consistent, once you find the ammo it likes best. Half-inch at 25 yards would be only a bit larger than 1/2" at 50 yards, which isn't bad for an unimproved sporter, but really good-shooting rifle, should shoot closer to 1/4" groups at 50 yards...outdoors, dealing with wind/mirage, etc.

Also, there are some good benchrest shooting guides available on the Internet and reading them would help you to be a better shooter.

Regarding .22 target ammo: I found inconsistencies in the same high-priced match ammo from lot-to-lot. Some $20/box ammo had flyers that cost points in competition, so your chances of finding $5 a box ammo to shoot consistent 1/4" groups at 50 yards is maybe 1 in 100 tries, but at 25 yards, 1/4" is quite possible with CCI SV or other similarly-priced ammo. Fiocchi Biathlon shot well in my rifles.

Good luck and keep experimenting in all aspects of accuracy endeavors.

Thanks and really appreciate it. The closest outdoor range is about one hour drive and I will wait for Summer to give it a try (so I can stay for a whole day to make it worthwhile). I find I really enjoy target shooting so I will keep practicing!

johnwilliamson062 · February 1, 2018, 01:19 AM

Sometimes one needs to re-zero when you change boxes of the same ammo type because they are from different runs with slightly different characteristics.
Not usually and it is often a pretty small adjustment, but it happens.

Hilltop Shooter · February 8, 2018, 11:55 AM

Yes, POI is different with different loads. Sometimes the same load but diff lot has to be re-zeroed. Differences in velocity and harmomics show up on target. Sometimes you get lucky and have a gun that shoots alot of diff ammo near the same POI, sometimes not.

Reguarding the 1st shot of each mag having a diff POI, it sounds like a feeding issue. Pretty common actually. For instance, the top round in the mag sitting with more of a cant than the following rounds because of bottoming your mag spring out/having the most spring pressure and the round scrapes material off as you feed it into the chamber. Or could be you settling in after the 1st shot. Best way to test it is single feed each round or shoot some mags not fully loaded and see if you still have the 1st round flyer. If you dont, its a feeding issue, if you do, it could be you.

johnwilliamson062 · February 8, 2018, 12:23 PM

Load mag all the way and chamber a round, then eject without firing. Look to see if the bullet has been damaged during feeding.
Are you putting 11 rounds in a ten round mag? Sometimes you can jam an extra round in a mag but it usually doesn't function well.

Picher · February 9, 2018, 11:40 AM

The first-round flyer in a 10-22 (and perhaps other semi-autos), is definitely caused by the operating handle binding the firing pin. I found that relieving the binding by filing and smoothing the handle so it slides in the bolt slot easily, eliminates the dreaded first-shot flyer.

Staking the firing pin deeper also contributes to accuracy by making a more consistent impact location on shell rims.

marcooool · February 12, 2018, 09:35 AM

Thanks. I tried with another bolt rifle and there is no "first round flying away" issue so it would very much likely the mag/loading issue.

February 8, 2018, 11:55 AM	#30
Hilltop Shooter Member Join Date: June 30, 2017 Location: SW TN Posts: 28	Yes, POI is different with different loads. Sometimes the same load but diff lot has to be re-zeroed. Differences in velocity and harmomics show up on target. Sometimes you get lucky and have a gun that shoots alot of diff ammo near the same POI, sometimes not. Reguarding the 1st shot of each mag having a diff POI, it sounds like a feeding issue. Pretty common actually. For instance, the top round in the mag sitting with more of a cant than the following rounds because of bottoming your mag spring out/having the most spring pressure and the round scrapes material off as you feed it into the chamber. Or could be you settling in after the 1st shot. Best way to test it is single feed each round or shoot some mags not fully loaded and see if you still have the 1st round flyer. If you dont, its a feeding issue, if you do, it could be you. __________________ "Show me a man that dont pet his dog or take his lady fishing and ill show you a man that can take both of em" Amos Moses

January 29, 2018, 01:58 PM	#27
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	I hope you find a place to shoot farther than 25 yards. That gets boring after a while. Also, shooting with a bipod and no rear bag is a limiting factor, since shoulder pressure, right hand pressure, and varied bipod stance can all affect consistency. You should get a solid front rest and rear bag, then learn how to be more consistent in your holds. Perhaps your rifle could be improved to be more consistent, once you find the ammo it likes best. Half-inch at 25 yards would be only a bit larger than 1/2" at 50 yards, which isn't bad for an unimproved sporter, but really good-shooting rifle, should shoot closer to 1/4" groups at 50 yards...outdoors, dealing with wind/mirage, etc. Also, there are some good benchrest shooting guides available on the Internet and reading them would help you to be a better shooter. Regarding .22 target ammo: I found inconsistencies in the same high-priced match ammo from lot-to-lot. Some $20/box ammo had flyers that cost points in competition, so your chances of finding $5 a box ammo to shoot consistent 1/4" groups at 50 yards is maybe 1 in 100 tries, but at 25 yards, 1/4" is quite possible with CCI SV or other similarly-priced ammo. Fiocchi Biathlon shot well in my rifles. Good luck and keep experimenting in all aspects of accuracy endeavors.

February 1, 2018, 01:19 AM	#29
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Sometimes one needs to re-zero when you change boxes of the same ammo type because they are from different runs with slightly different characteristics. Not usually and it is often a pretty small adjustment, but it happens.

February 8, 2018, 12:23 PM	#31
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Load mag all the way and chamber a round, then eject without firing. Look to see if the bullet has been damaged during feeding. Are you putting 11 rounds in a ten round mag? Sometimes you can jam an extra round in a mag but it usually doesn't function well.

February 9, 2018, 11:40 AM	#32
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	The first-round flyer in a 10-22 (and perhaps other semi-autos), is definitely caused by the operating handle binding the firing pin. I found that relieving the binding by filing and smoothing the handle so it slides in the bolt slot easily, eliminates the dreaded first-shot flyer. Staking the firing pin deeper also contributes to accuracy by making a more consistent impact location on shell rims.

February 12, 2018, 09:35 AM	#33
marcooool Junior Member Join Date: October 17, 2017 Posts: 9	Thanks. I tried with another bolt rifle and there is no "first round flying away" issue so it would very much likely the mag/loading issue.