Private sales online...

[Carmike]

Hello all,

I found a gun I want on private sales website. It happens to be out of state. The seller is willing to ship to my FFL, and he wants me to send the $$ via PayPal. Unfortunately, PP doesn't offer buyer's protection, so I worry that I'd transfer him the cash and then the gun never arrives.

What do y'all do in this case? Sorry if this is a newbie question with an obvious answer, but my online perusals have left me without any great answers.

Thanks!


Carmike

[TXAZ]

I would keep looking. There are sites that have buyer protection.

[Carmike]

Thanks for the reply, TXAZ. Can you share which sites they are? PP does offer buyer protection...but not when you're buying a firearm.

[JoeSixpack]

I wouldn't deal with someone out of state.

Buy FTF locally, If you're gonna buy online do it thru gun broker or direct from a FFL.

There is no way I'd just trust someone to send the gun to your FFL after being paid.
95%* of the time people probably are honest and would follow thru but that other 5%* is gonna leave you with a scorched ass.

Exceptions would be someone with a lot of posts on this or another message board where at least some form of trust and a forum to complain exists.

IE: they don't follow thru you can tell the world what a bum they are.
but that's about it.



* Figures pull out of thin air.

[ammo.crafter]

Pay with Am Ex if you can.

[JT-AR-MG42]

Yeah, I would keep looking as well.
GB is at least proof that the seller has come through in the past.

The seller you have been in contact with should understand those concerns as well
and offer CC sales.

Just one other related FYI.
When buying from a private seller on GB (or any site) remember that if you are wanting
to return the gun to the seller, your FFL cannot do so. He can only send it back to another FFL.

Which adds up to a bunch of phone calling/headaches to get the seller - hopefully - to find an FFL.

So be sure you really get good photos and want the gun before buying from an individual out of state.

My 02, JT

[TXAZ]

Carmike
the biggest I'm aware of is Gunbroker and their Buyer protection plan
Gunbroker Buyer protection plan


Bud's has something similar, provided by Norton
Bud's / Norton Buyer Protection

There are other smaller sites that also use third party guarantee like Norton, but I have generally stuck with Gun Broker and Buds.
I hope that helps.

[NoSecondBest]

I've bought and sold guns on line for years now and never had a problem. I check the sellers feedback and if none's available I don't do a deal. Also, call and talk to the seller. You'll often get a good feel about the person. Last, use google to see where they live, any write-ups on them, etc. When someone lives in a nice house, been there a while, has some tid bits on the internet that are positive about them, etc., you're probably safe. If you can't get any of that, don't do business. Lots of sites do have seller/buyer feedback and that's the place to find what you're looking for.

[shootniron]

I have bought many guns online from private sellers...never had a problem. When I got there info, I have been able to verify their identity by searching a little and my FFL will accept guns from an individual...never a problem. BUT...that has been my experience, yours may be different.

[Skans]

1. See if he is a regular member of the forum and read his posts. If he has 5 posts and they were all obviously posted just so he could list the gun, I'd be skeptical and likely move on. If he has 1243 posts and pretty good reputation, then I would proceed to #2.

2. Ask him to email you pictures of the firearm with a small piece of paper with his name hand written on it laid across the grip or some other part of the gun - this insures that the pictures were taken recently and that he actually has the gun in his possession.

3. Get his phone number, call him and talk to him about the condition of the gun. You can find out a lot about someone in a phone conversation like: are they foreign sounding, do they speak naturally, does what they say make sense, is their demeanor friendly and helpful, or are they guarded, are they pushy about the money, short or irritated, etc.

4. At this point, if I want the gun, I will get his physical address to send payment. I will likely send him postal money orders for the purchase price. Sometimes, I will use a check so I can have a record of where the check cleared, but I've gotten away from that. Then I would have my FFL email him a copy of their license, and instruct him where to send the gun.

[FITASC]

NEVER use Paypal for firearms and related things - they are vehemently anti-gun and will freeze your account and assets.

I have purchased (and sold) many guns over the net to individuals using a FFL on the recipient's end with zero issues. Payment was by USPS money order; every transaction went as planned.

[cslinger]

I use postal money orders and try to deal with forum members who tend to be known or longstanding.

[Carmike]

Thank you for all the feedback, guys. This sale is via armslist, and it's out of state. The original ad said he'd be willing to ship, but he wants me to send the money via PayPal, which ain't happening. My question about a USPS money order hasn't been returned, and the gun is no longer available on the site. Probably best outcome, all around.

[JoeSixpack]

armslist is just a classified ad website centered around firearms.
It has no more credibility then Craigs list (except CL doesn't allow gun listings)

I would not deal with anyone out of state, but that's just me personally.

[Nathan]

This is a challenging topic. I have taken the risk, but sure wish somebody was running a gun deal escrow operation where they would hold the money until you received the gun.

[SauerGrapes]

I just sold my first gun on gun broker. I was concerned nobody would buy from me, not being a FFL and all. I do have some feed back, but only on the purchase side. I gave the buyer a 3 day inspection period. I hoped that would help.

I think places like Armslist is shaky. I found a couple scam adds on there. I almost got sucked in. At least with Gunbroker they verify you with a credit card to sell.

[FITASC]

Armslist is more scam than real............especially when you start asking questions and listings disappear.....

[Carmike]

I've bought a handful of guns on Armslist, though up to this point they've all been in-state, face-to-face transactions. No problems there.

I did finally hear back re: the USPS money order. The more I actually "conversed" with him via email, the fishier everything seemed. He apparently didn't know he had to ship it to an FFL, and he was insistent on PayPal, saying it did have buyer protection (though it clearly doesn't for firearms purchases). The fact that the gun was no longer listed on Armslist also didn't seem right, as we had come nowhere near an agreement for me to actually buy it. All in all, I'm thinking it was a scam. Or the guy was just clueless, I dunno. Glad I didn't send him any money, that's for sure.

[Skans]

The fact that the gun was no longer listed on Armslist also didn't seem right, as we had come nowhere near an agreement for me to actually buy it. All in all, I'm thinking it was a scam. Or the guy was just clueless, I dunno. Glad I didn't send him any money, that's for sure.

There's enough in what you said that would make me quickly lose interest in this deal as well. People who are legitimately trying to sell something over the internet will bend over backwards to make sure you feel comfortable with the fact that they have the gun and will quickly ship the gun upon receipt of the money order. Basically, all of this can be flushed out in a telephone conversation and an email of a picture of the gun with the seller's name or even better your name hand written on a piece of paper laid across the gun itself. 99.9% of Scammers never even owned the gun they claim to be selling. Other scams have more to do with misrepresenting the identity or condition of the gun, which often aren't scams, just mistakes.

Bad communication, lack of understanding on how to ship and insistence on paypal - I'd drop communication with this seller like a lead balloon.

[JoeSixpack]

Another thing to consider when sending money with paypal.

If you send it as a "gift" there is no fee, however, this is meant to be used between friends.
People often will send money in this way for business transactions.. and this is fine when there is trust, or at the very least a willingness to risk.

But you should also know that anything send as a gift can not be retracted, and carries ZERO.. I Mean ZERO protection no matter what the money is actually being transacted for. whether it be a gun or money to pickup burger king.

Pyapals logic (and it's correct imo) is that anything sent as "gift" is suppose to be just that.. a gift.. and should be treated like cash, You're suppose to be sending to friends and family.. people you trust.. any dispute about money after the fact.. You're on your own.

Never send money to someone via a paypal gift unless you either trust them or can afford to loose the money.

Im not saying this seller wanted it to be transferred that way.. But often that is the case.

[Chainsaw.]

An amigo of mine got burned on the purchase of a machine gun (made semi) paid 4 grand I believe to have a box of parts show up, many of which were not even to said machine gun. Buddy chased him around the internet to no avail. He was able to sell the parts and recouped about a grand. Be careful out there!

[Skans]

An amigo of mine got burned on the purchase of a machine gun (made semi)

Right there is a big huge red flag. No machine gun can legally be made into a semi-auto for sale to the general public. Something must have been done to the receiver to make the gun full-auto. You can't just undo that. People will destroy the receiver and then sell the parts

[T. O'Heir]

Like Fitasc says, PayPal is rabidly anti-firearm ownership and not only will they steal your money, they give part of every sale to the people who think you should not be allowed to own firearms at all. Same thing applies to E-Bay.
"...chased him around the internet..." Aside from there being no place on the internet to chase anybody. You don't do that. You hire a lawyer to do chase him.

[laytonj1]

You hire a lawyer to do chase him.

LOL. You hired one lately? It could cost more in lawyer fees than he lost on the gun in the first place.

Jim