Nosler 30 caliber bullet

[ninosdemente]

I'm looking to purchase bullets to reload .30-06 150gr for target at the range to use with Savage 111. I currently have Nosler 7 and Lyman 50th.

At a different post, someone recommended I could use Reloader 15 and IMR 4064 powder and planning to use IMR 4064 as it is listed in both books. He also mentioned I can use 150gr/165gr for target and 180gr for hunting. For now, will stick with 150gr first as I have been buying 150gr boxes off the shelf (Winchester Power Point). At the store near me, the AccuBond and Ballistic Tip are the only two bullets being sold in 150gr.

I visited the Nosler website and saw there are different bullet types. Read the information on the site. Now I did see one is a bit more than the other in price at the store. As Nosler book has those two in their list, what is the difference between the two?

Now when reloading, does one stick to the suggested bullets from the book and stick to that book or is it ok to use other books or use bullets that are not in the list/books when creating new batches? I did see that in the Lyman book, a different bullet was used (Hornady SP). This is listed as the accurate load when using IMR 4064 but not in Nosler. What makes/is an accurate load? As completely new to reloading and ignorant, just trying to get informed correctly before I actually begin to load. The information contained in the books, are they from the best results from different tests? How does the suggested load data make the "list" to the books? Hopefully these are not stupid questions, if so, school me. Thanks.

[jmr40]

What are you hunting? Where, and what do you consider the longest shots you'd take. With this info accurate advice would be easier.

I can understand using a less expensive bullet for practice and a more expensive bullet for hunting. But they should be of the same weight and with similar shape so that trajectories will be close.

Powder choice would also be determined by bullet choice. Some powders work well with certain bullet weights and not with others. I use both powders you're considering in 308 where they are excellent. They will work in 30-06 with lighter bullets, but are not the best choice, especially as you go up in bullet weight. A little slower burning powder would be a better option in 30-06. Either H4350, IMR4350, Ramshot Hunter or Reloader 17 would be my picks in 30-06 with 150-180 gr bullets. If you're gonna get into 200gr or heavier bullets there are other better options.

I'd suggest that in addition to the loading manual you have that you spend some time looking at online sources.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
https://load-data.nosler.com/
http://alliantpowder.com/reloaders/R...aspx?gtypeid=2
http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/up...2016_Web-1.pdf
http://www.barnesbullets.com/load-data/

There is more to bullet choice than weight. Some bullets are fairly soft and expand quickly, sometimes too quickly especially if shot too fast. Other bullets are hard and are made to penetrate deeper before expanding. And there are varying degrees in between. Even in the same weight the same bullet that might work well on a 150 lb deer might not be a good choice for a 700 lb elk.

Plus some bullets are simply more aerodynamic than others. This means they maintain speed much better down range and will impact game faster and harder beyond 100 yards. They offer slightly better trajectory as well. Each bullet will have it's Ballistic Coefficient listed as BC in the specs. The higher the number, the more aerodynamic.

If you find load data for a specific bullet, case, primer, and powder the load data in the manual is more accurate. But you can USUALLY substitute a different bullet of the same weight, case, or primer as long as you start low and work up your loads. You'll find that some bullets, or cases will develop more pressure and speed with less powder than others. As long as you are loading mid level or lower loads you shouldn't have any problems. As you approach max loads you may find that some bullets or cases will be over pressure even though you are below the max powder charge.

Don't try to substitute load data between lead and the all copper bullets. Copper load data is very different than lead bullets. Federal brass tends to produce more pressure with less powder as does military surplus brass so be careful with those. FWIW, I've been able to interchange load data between Hornady, Nosler and Berger bullets as long as I use Remington, Winchester, or Horanady brass. As long as I use the same bullet weight and powder charge I get the same results. With other brands of bullets and cases I have to work up different loads.

As Nosler book has those two in their list, what is the difference between the two?

Nosler offers several options. Their Ballistic Tip is their softer bullet with good aerodynamics for long range work. It is also the least expensive.

Their Partition is made in 2 halves, the front half expands easily, but the rear of the bullet holds together well for deep penetration on larger game. An expensive bullet, but with poor to average BC's.

The Accubond combines the aerodynamics of the Ballistic Tip with deep penetration. Not quite as good as the Partition, but better than most others.

They also offer a solid copper bullet as well as target bullets.

[Mobuck]

Both Lyman and Nosler manuals have a wealth of knowledge beyond the loading data. I have a Nosler #8 manual in hand and it gives a very detailed description of their bullets' construction, uses, and suggested applications.
The Ballistic Tip is designed for small/medium sized game in the deer/antelope category. I've shot quite a few deer with BT's in several calibers and they are suitable for such use. The AccuBond is a totally different application and is considered a "step up" from the BT in terms of expansion vs weight retention. I've shot a few deer with the AB and they definitely show limited expansion on the smaller animals.
In other words, a 150 grain BT is a deer(150-200#) bullet while a 150 grain AB may be suitable for somewhat bigger animals(caribou, sheep, cow elk-250-400#).

[std7mag]

As JMR40 mentioned, all 30 cal 150gr bullets are not the same.

The Ballistic tip will have a green tip in 30cal. White for accubonds of all calibers.

I use the Hornady SST for practice, along with some Nosler BT. Ballistically they are fairly compatable. Either will do the job on a deer.
I just use BTs when hunting because of my personal preference.

The component companies test certain combinations largely due to them being owned by corporation that owns several component companies.
Alliant and Speer for example are owned by Vista.

[RC20]

What are you hunting? Where, and what do you consider the longest shots you'd take. With this info accurate advice would be easier.

OP clearly stated he was going to be target shooting first line.

It does get confusing after that.


OP: What makes for accurate in one gun is not in another.

Ergo, you start low and work up. For hunting you want something between mid and high to keep trajectory in bounds.

For just target, anything that shoots well from low to medium loads. .

Starting load, then added 3/10 to 5/10 grain.

I usually load 10 but have done 5 to get a quicker idea over a wider range.

I shoot 5 shot groups. 3 can be seriously misleading but is fine for hunting.

Accubond is a hunting bullet designed for expansion.

Ballistic Tip: Refer to above.

Accubond can be very accurate, they tend to cost more due to the design and complexity that goes into a bullet to kill from 50 yards to 300 (roughly)

Just be aware, some guns shoot a lot of bullets well, some are picky, some in between.

Don't get locked into a bullet until you know it will shoot.

You can mail order.

Cabella has Hornady 168ZMX that shoot well in all my guns. Can't get that on open market but a 168 Hornady Varmint bullet is the same thing.

Varmint bullets are good target bullets as they are intended to be long range accurate .

[RC20]

This is my take on bullet types and crossing data.

As long as you start at the low end, its ok to cross data between FMJ flat base, boatails s, Low Drag (ELD/VLD in todyas letters) in the same grain size or within 5 grains.

AS LONG AS THEY ARE METAL JACKETED. All best off for lead and copper as was mentioned.

The mfg books do it all the time. Hornady lists probably 6 168 grain bullet types all with same loads.

Start at the low end of whatever book you use. Good to cross reference to see at least two low end starting points. Go with the lowest.

[T. O'Heir]

IMR 4064 is your friend with most .30 cal bullets. Different bullet types it really don't matter. What does matter is the bullet weight. Neither does who made it. Reloading is done by the weight and whether the bullet is jacketed or cast/plated.
You need to work up the load from the starting load(47.0 for IMR4064). Load 4(mag capacity of an M111) and go up by .5 of a grain to the max load(51.0). Comes to 8 loads. Keep 'em separate(factory boxes are good for that being 20 rounds). Then go shooting for group only at 100 yards off a solid rest. No bipods. Shoot slowly and deliberately allowing cooling time between strings of 4. (You must do this for any bullet weight.) Once you have a load you can, if you feel like it, fiddle with the OAL, but use the OAL given in your manual to start. .30-06 uses 3.340".
A 165 grain bullet will kill any game in North America. It's a good weight for a 'do anything' load in .30-06 or .308. Both cartridges love1 65's.
It's pricey 168 grain match bullets for targets. Best to work up the load and practice shooting it, off hand, at 100 yards, at a 9" pie plate. When you can hit a 9" plate every time you're ready to hunt.

[RC20]

I think that's a bit of a mis statement, there are a lot of 30 caliber guns, no one powder is exclusive to a bullet, some work in some cartridges better than others.

It also depends on the the bullet size. In this case 150 and up.

As we are talking about 30-06, the go to

H4831: Somewhat underrated but have found it to be a go to

4350 (H or I)

R17 (does some really good things at the upper end)

I4451: New but good results.

H4895 can work well with reduced loads.

[hooligan1]

In my 3006 rifles nothing rivals IMR 4350 with 150 grn bullets, I have a load for IMR 4064, and its not hot but its consiistant, not a decent as IMR 4350.
When I shoot 165's I also use IMR 4350, and I have different powder charges with 2 different bullets that weigh 165.
But to put it simpley, IMR 4350 is my go to for those weights.
The difference between the Ballistic tip and the Accubond is that the Accubond is a "Bonded" bullet, the Btip is not and doesnt hold together as well as the Accubond.
My findings are less actual tissue damage with Accubond and it seems to pass through these Missouri whitetails easily, while the Btip usually comes apart and sometimes can be found in the off side underneath the skin, and Ive recovered 3 or 4 this way out of 30 or so Ive taken....just an observation, results can vary deer to deer...

[ninosdemente]

Thank you very much to all for your input. Really appreciate it and for the online sources jmr40. After reading all the comments, still trying to sink in all the information given. Looks overwhelming on my end. LOL.

At the moment just looking for target and am shooting at the 100yd at the moment, not sure if I would move up to the 200yd before the fall starts. The bullets I found is at Cabela's and both of them are on sale. The BT is at $16.49 and AccuBond at $22.29. I have already made up my mind on 150gr before I saw the sale. There are other Nosler bullets also on sale that are 165gr and up. I know I shouldn't base it off the price, but since this would end up being my first load, I want to start somewhere, get my familiar and get my hands dirty. Seems like IMR 4350 is another option besides the IMR 4064.

Now would I use CCI Large Rifle Primer? Both books mention Winchester Large Rifle.

Is there an online source where I can view a "guide/suggestion" of what different rifle grains have been used for?

[ed308]

Search you rifle brand and caliber online for suggestions. With that said, I follow pattern T. O'Heir suggested when working up loads. But I fire 5 shot groups instead of 4 shots. I take the tightest group then play around with the OAL. For my .308 Savage bolt, I shoot a lot of Nosler Custom Comp bullets for non hunting applications. For hunting, I'm a big fan of the Accubonds in a 6.8 (110gr) or 270AR (130gr).

[Jeffm004]

Max powder is max powder. The bullet weight is what it is but the rest you can experiment with, various 150 gr, bullets various primers. Things will change, often not enough to notice at less than 2-300m.

In my opinion "pressure signs" are voodoo except hard extraction on a bolt gun. If you are there, you have probably gone past book.

My .308 likes Nosler better than Hornady 165s. I do the same, one to plink one to hunt, but I keep them at the same wt.

IMO - you will get better results faster loading more rounds anywhere mid range and getting off the bench to practice more from standing, kneeling, prone. Have fun.

[cptjack]

TRIED NOSLER BT and it shrank my group

[GeauxTide]

In six rifles, 52gr of 4064 gave 2955 and 3/4" groups. In one, I went to 53gr and went over 3000, but it wasn't as accurate. Yes, it was over current book max, but a 70s vintage Sierra Manual listed 53. No pressure signs and cases fell out the chamber. Take your pick - Hornady, Sierra, Speer, or Nosler. I would not use H4831 for 150s (or in the caliber) as it's too bulky and slow. For instance, a Max Load of IMR4350 or RL17 gives just over 3000 with 6-8 grains more powder (Loaddata.com) None listed for 4831.

[RC20]

OP: your name is too long for me to type!

Ok, mfg primers are not a big deal (more in a second) unless you are up at the upper end of high loads, then its careful and quit if it does not go well (pressure signs, sticky bolt, primer appearance though that can be deceiving - chonrograph)

However: Some guns will shoot some loads with different mfg primers better. Once you get a load you can use other primers (you will need to change the charge at least down 3/10 and up 3/10 if you are not up at max.

What it means is you don't have to use Winchester, what the books are telling you is that is what they used and if you get high up in the charge, theirs was ok to that limit.

Use a Remington and it may reach max a grain or so early (bigger guns, 308/06, small the cartridge the less it takes)

My go to is CCI. I based that off what the bench rest guys mostly use.

[ninosdemente]

Thanks again for the help. Very useful information for me.

[Don Fischer]

Well he said target shooting. Only one brand of bullet for me for target's, Sierra Match Kings. I have never shot another bullet that could shoot with them. I'm sure there are other bullet's that can but I'm not about to change from something that works for me for something I don't know about. If you go hunting, change to a hunting bullet in the same weight, back off about 5% and try that new bullet, bet it works!

[603Country]

I'd just go with the 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, IMR4064, high-end brass (Norma, Lapua, Nosler), and CCI BR primers. Though not a target bullet, the BT is an industry go to bullet for use in measuring rifle accuracy. As for effectiveness, I've used it hundreds of whitetail in Louisiana and Texas in 270 and 260. Yes, it can be rather explosive at 3000 fps and above at close distances, but it is very effective. Shoot em in the lungs, wait 10 minutes, and walk to the deer.

In the 270, back in Louisiana, and on big deer (200 to 275 pound), I usually got thru and thru and excellent blood trails, if a little trailing was needed.

[ninosdemente]

603Country, thanks for the suggestion. You mentioned CCI BR primers.

I went online: http://www.cci-ammunition.com/produc...imer_chart.htm and saw this chart. At the store they have the CCI Large Rifle Primers BR2, 250 and 200. Is there a big difference if I choose one over the other? The 250 was only available in 100ct while BR2 and 200 was available in 1000ct. Do they sell 100ct for the other two? I was not able to find one yet at 100ct, if no, then I just answered my own question.

[603Country]

I use the CCI BR2 primer exclusively for large rifle use, and the BR4 for my 223. I really can't tell you that the BR2 will get you tinier groups than other primers. It's an excellent primer and I guess you can say that I have standardized with that one. As for 100 or 1000, I buy the 1000 count. Unless you shoot just 15 times per year, that 1000 will be used up pretty fast.

I mentioned premium brass being what I use, but it's because I've gotten lazy. A fellow can spend time prepping Winchester and Remington brass (turning necks, demurring flash holes, etc.) and shoot great groups. I just got tired of the prep work and started buying brass that doesn't need prep. Pure laziness...

Please let us know how the search for accuracy went. Bragging is acceptable.

[Geezerbiker]

I think you would get better results with a slower powder like 4350. I know it hurts putting expensive partition bullets into a target but you have to know how they shoot.

Tony

[bamaranger]

I get the impression that the OP is referring more to 100-200 yd practice, as opposed to target/Match shooting. All of the name brand slugs mentioned are well up to the task, but the Noslers are expensive in any flavor, as are most other "game" bullets.

Quite a few years back, I ordered a large quantity of 147 gr. FMJBT "mil-spec" slugs, from Wiedners Reloading. Even now, with the current price of components, these slugs are still more affordable than any game bullet, and I suggest that the accuracy is sufficient for casual practice. I use these slugs in my Garands, a .308 Savage Scout, and for a while, a Savage Hog Rifle, and the accuracy was sufficient in all 3 of those sugls in my rifles, for 100-200 yd practice. A step up from these generic bulk FMJ's may be the 150 gr FMJBT bullets offered by Winchester and Hornady, also available in bulk. I shot the Winchesters for a while, till I found the mil-specs at Wiedner.

I once read where 4064 was referred to as an "old man powder" and I like that comment. I use 4064 widely for multiple calibers. Another favorite in the .30's is Varget. A general rule when switching components ( be it projectiles, primers or brass) is to drop the powder charge ( I believe 5% is recommended) and work your way back up in small increments towards the desired, safe charge and veloecity. "Presure Signs" can be elusive, and a useful tool in working up loads is a chronograph. You see velocity readings higher than expected, you are probably flirting with high pressure.

[Mobuck]

" At the store they have the CCI Large Rifle Primers BR2, 250 and 200. Is there a big difference if I choose one over the other? "
Don't believe anything you see on a store display.
You need to read the recommendations for primer use. "BR" (bench rest or match grade) are unnecessary for general use. CCI 200 is the STANDARD large rifle primer while the CCI 250 is the MAGNUM level large rifle primer. Generally not considered safe to switch back and forth. READ the good stuff in the front of the data manual and many of your questions will be answered.

[ninosdemente]

Yes, I just do practice shooting.

Thanks for the reply Mobuck.