300 WSM Precision, is the .300 WinMag easier to load to shoot precisely?

Para Bellum · July 6, 2018, 08:54 AM

Hi folks,

Friends told me that they gave their 300 WSM away because they could not shoot them as precisely as their .300 WinMags.

I wonder whether this might have to do with more aggressive powder in the WSM and hence faster acceleration which might make things more funky keeping in mind that they all use bullets designed for the slower accelerating .308 Win? Maybe the .300 WinMag uses more progressive powder and accelerates slower but more consistent and therefore deforms the bullets more consistently which leads to higher accuracy?

Thank you for your time and thought!

Have a nice weekend,
PB

Don Fischer · July 6, 2018, 10:03 AM

I think that if they really wanted to know, they could shoot the 30-06 and 308 better than their 300 mag of any kind. Guy that shoot magnum's well shoot a lot. Years ago I shoot a 7mm mag and a couple 338 mags and I shot them very well. But lay off one for a time and getting going again was tuff! Problem being I had to condition myself to recoil all over! Rifles still shot well after the layoff, I didn't!

jmr40 · July 6, 2018, 10:45 AM

The 300 WSM should be more accurate. The records have since fallen, but no one shoots 300 WM at 1000 yard benchrest anymore. The 300 WSM was beating it, and today there are other cartridges beating 300 WSM.

Hornady used to use 308 for accuracy testing their 30 caliber bullets. But has since changed to 300 WSM because they found it to produce better accuracy than any other cartridge in 30 caliber.

I suspect that there are simply more people who have spent time loading for 300WM and there are more accurate loads that are tested and proven. The 300 WSM is a relatively new cartridge with much less testing done.

T. O'Heir · July 6, 2018, 01:02 PM

There's really no comparison unless you have 2 identical rifles that weight exactly the same. Closest real recoil numbers are a 180 at 2970 FPS, .300 WSM out of an 8.25 pound rifle(too light for target shooting) that produces 23.8 ft-lbs. of recoil energy. Vs the .300 Win Mag, 180 at 2960 FPS out of an 8.5 pound rifle(also too light) at 25.9 ft-lbs.
So the recoil is really close out of slightly different weight rifles.
Of course, 8.25 and 8.5 pound rifles are hunting rifles. Either cartridge produces excessive recoil for a hunting rifle. Target rifles weigh a great deal more. Knew a guy who shot a 17.5 pound .300 Win Mag in DCRA 1,000 yard matches.
"...slower accelerating..." No such thing as faster or slower accelerating. All accelerating is finished as soon as the bullet leaves the barrel. A .300 Win Mag starts faster than a .308 max load. A .300 WSM is very close to the same velocity as a .300 Win Mag using 180 and 190 grain bullets. Mind you, the 'M' is WSM is marketing. WSM's aren't really Magnums.
"...therefore deforms the bullets..." That just doesn't happen.
100 pcs. of Hornady .300 Win Mag runs $67.99 at Midway. 50 pcs. of Hornady .300 WSM runs $54.99. Roughly twice the cost.
So the whole issue is primarily about the rifles plus a certain amount of cost of ammo.
1,000 yard benchrest and 1,000 yard NRA High Power aren't the same thing.

std7mag · July 6, 2018, 04:13 PM

Theoretically the 300 WSM should be more accurate than the 300 WM.
1) shorter casing of WSM means a shorter, stiffer action.
2) WSM headspaces on the shoulder, not a belt as the WM.
3) short, wide powder column is supposed to ignite/burn more evenly.

The bullets are NOT deforming! Same .308" bullet used for 308, 30-06, WSM, Win Mag, Weatherby Mag, Ultra Mag, and Lazzeroni's 300.

Wendyj · July 6, 2018, 04:46 PM

I love my Tikka t3 in 300 wsm. It eats 180 grain bullets and imr 4451 into great groups. Recoil in a 300 wsm to me is a lot less than the 300 win mag. The Tikka is a light rifle but handles nice.

Nathan · July 6, 2018, 05:29 PM

What kind of shooting are we talking about? Hunting? Target with hunting rifles? Precision rifle? 1000yd benchrest?

In my experience 14 lb Savage 12 BVSS 300 WSM....It has been extremely accurate, but hard to get there. The recipe should be heavy VLD's with slow powders. Berger 210 VLD's keyholed. Magpro was too slow.

Eventually 190 Berger VLD's were settled on with R19 behind them....getting groups n the 0.6's....not bad, but I feel like the rifle can do better.

To me, the key is getting the right powder and bullet selected for the round and barrel length. The 300 Win Mag is a known entity. You can find 2-3 good loads in 5 min of internet search. In 300 WSM, all the focus has been light speed 165 & 180 loads, so match loadings are harder to find.

I think the WSM has more potential, but experience still lies with the Win Mag.

The rules are still the rules...case fit to the chamber + a great bullet matched to the throat and rifling + a powder the fills the case and hits max pressure + a consistent primer + load development will get you there.

Factory ammo of course give the Win Mag a huge advantage....Are there even WSM match loads?

taylorce1 · July 6, 2018, 06:11 PM

It would be nice to know how they had each rifle set up and what actually led them to that conclusion. I don't shoot or load either one, my .300 is either a Blackout, Savage, or H&H so I have no experience with either cartridge. However, your friends may not be wrong from their point of view.

You could buy two M70, M700, T3, 10/110,.... rifles of the same type, one in .300 WM the other in WSM and the .300 WM could easily be the more accurate and precise rifle. The same could happen if you're building rifle and use exactly the same action, barrels, triggers, and stocks. I wouldn't say as a rule that the .300 WM is more or less precise, maybe their rifle was. It really has nothing to do with the cartridge, but more with the rifle maybe having the stars align better when it was built and the trigger opperator.

Powders have nothing to do with it since the WSM and WM have similar case capacities the use a lot of the same powders. If you look any any reloading manual you'll see a lot of powder overlap, the .300 WM will have more powders listed only because it's been around since 1963 as a commercial load. When the WSM has 55 years of handload data I'm sure you'll see the powder overlap increase.

All evidence points that the .300 WSM should be the more accurate cartridge. That doesn't mean you can't have an accurate rifle in a different but similar cartridge. My bet is that your friend/friends were already shooting a .300 WM that they had a lot of faith in, but wanted to try out the .300 WSM and gave up on it too soon. It happens more than people think and I've done it a few times myself.

Scorch · July 7, 2018, 03:02 PM

Blaming a cartridge for accuracy issues is like blaming being drunk on the shape of the beer can. Accuracy with any given rifle typically depends on the quality of the components used in the loads, the quality of the barrel, and the skill of the shooter. Two of those are easy to determine, the last (sadly) is often not good despite the insistence of the shooter, so we blame an inanimate object for our failures. If it were called the 300 Winchester Studly Man, no one would dare say it's the cartridge.

Nathan · July 7, 2018, 03:58 PM

I think you guys are missing the point i’m Trying to make...300 win mag has so many great loads...just read some people posting on it and you will find what powde4 and bullet will get you close.

300wsm is great, but 90% of the discussion is on 3200+ FPS loads with 165’s & 180’s out of 24” barrels....but you really want 190’s or larger out of a 26”+ barrel. You might even be a lucky person with a match barrel that is 28” or longer and/or a 1:9 twist. Each of these conditions is basically a new powder and bullet with few people posting what works. So, then you spend your own money and time to figure it out while joe blow down the street is banging away at mile steel laughing at you with his Savage chassis gun in 300 win mag and factory ammo!

disseminator · July 8, 2018, 02:07 PM

So, the reason the 300WM is favored by Precision Shooters is that it's larger case is more suitable to the very high BC 210+ grain bullets where the 300 WSM's shorter case is better with the lighter bullets.

That is the only real advantage to the 300WM over the WSM. If your a hunter, I'd pick the WSM every time. With a 180-210g bullet it's a great choice for hunters because it makes it's optimum velocities from a 24" barrel vs the more common 26" for the WM and has a shorter action as well.

I have a 300 WSM in a Model 70 Featherweight and I also have a 26" Model 70 classic in 7mmRM ( it's the same rifle in the 300WM version ) and the WSM is MUCH nicer to carry in the woods and shoots lights out too.

July 6, 2018, 08:54 AM	#1
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	300 WSM Precision, is the .300 WinMag easier to load to shoot precisely? Hi folks, Friends told me that they gave their 300 WSM away because they could not shoot them as precisely as their .300 WinMags. I wonder whether this might have to do with more aggressive powder in the WSM and hence faster acceleration which might make things more funky keeping in mind that they all use bullets designed for the slower accelerating .308 Win? Maybe the .300 WinMag uses more progressive powder and accelerates slower but more consistent and therefore deforms the bullets more consistently which leads to higher accuracy? Thank you for your time and thought! Have a nice weekend, PB __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

July 6, 2018, 10:45 AM	#3
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	The 300 WSM should be more accurate. The records have since fallen, but no one shoots 300 WM at 1000 yard benchrest anymore. The 300 WSM was beating it, and today there are other cartridges beating 300 WSM. Hornady used to use 308 for accuracy testing their 30 caliber bullets. But has since changed to 300 WSM because they found it to produce better accuracy than any other cartridge in 30 caliber. I suspect that there are simply more people who have spent time loading for 300WM and there are more accurate loads that are tested and proven. The 300 WSM is a relatively new cartridge with much less testing done. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

July 6, 2018, 01:02 PM	#4
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	There's really no comparison unless you have 2 identical rifles that weight exactly the same. Closest real recoil numbers are a 180 at 2970 FPS, .300 WSM out of an 8.25 pound rifle(too light for target shooting) that produces 23.8 ft-lbs. of recoil energy. Vs the .300 Win Mag, 180 at 2960 FPS out of an 8.5 pound rifle(also too light) at 25.9 ft-lbs. So the recoil is really close out of slightly different weight rifles. Of course, 8.25 and 8.5 pound rifles are hunting rifles. Either cartridge produces excessive recoil for a hunting rifle. Target rifles weigh a great deal more. Knew a guy who shot a 17.5 pound .300 Win Mag in DCRA 1,000 yard matches. "...slower accelerating..." No such thing as faster or slower accelerating. All accelerating is finished as soon as the bullet leaves the barrel. A .300 Win Mag starts faster than a .308 max load. A .300 WSM is very close to the same velocity as a .300 Win Mag using 180 and 190 grain bullets. Mind you, the 'M' is WSM is marketing. WSM's aren't really Magnums. "...therefore deforms the bullets..." That just doesn't happen. 100 pcs. of Hornady .300 Win Mag runs $67.99 at Midway. 50 pcs. of Hornady .300 WSM runs $54.99. Roughly twice the cost. So the whole issue is primarily about the rifles plus a certain amount of cost of ammo. 1,000 yard benchrest and 1,000 yard NRA High Power aren't the same thing. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 6, 2018, 04:13 PM	#5
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Theoretically the 300 WSM should be more accurate than the 300 WM. 1) shorter casing of WSM means a shorter, stiffer action. 2) WSM headspaces on the shoulder, not a belt as the WM. 3) short, wide powder column is supposed to ignite/burn more evenly. The bullets are NOT deforming! Same .308" bullet used for 308, 30-06, WSM, Win Mag, Weatherby Mag, Ultra Mag, and Lazzeroni's 300. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

July 6, 2018, 04:46 PM	#6
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	I love my Tikka t3 in 300 wsm. It eats 180 grain bullets and imr 4451 into great groups. Recoil in a 300 wsm to me is a lot less than the 300 win mag. The Tikka is a light rifle but handles nice. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

July 6, 2018, 10:03 AM	#2
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	I think that if they really wanted to know, they could shoot the 30-06 and 308 better than their 300 mag of any kind. Guy that shoot magnum's well shoot a lot. Years ago I shoot a 7mm mag and a couple 338 mags and I shot them very well. But lay off one for a time and getting going again was tuff! Problem being I had to condition myself to recoil all over! Rifles still shot well after the layoff, I didn't!

July 6, 2018, 05:29 PM	#7
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,326	What kind of shooting are we talking about? Hunting? Target with hunting rifles? Precision rifle? 1000yd benchrest? In my experience 14 lb Savage 12 BVSS 300 WSM....It has been extremely accurate, but hard to get there. The recipe should be heavy VLD's with slow powders. Berger 210 VLD's keyholed. Magpro was too slow. Eventually 190 Berger VLD's were settled on with R19 behind them....getting groups n the 0.6's....not bad, but I feel like the rifle can do better. To me, the key is getting the right powder and bullet selected for the round and barrel length. The 300 Win Mag is a known entity. You can find 2-3 good loads in 5 min of internet search. In 300 WSM, all the focus has been light speed 165 & 180 loads, so match loadings are harder to find. I think the WSM has more potential, but experience still lies with the Win Mag. The rules are still the rules...case fit to the chamber + a great bullet matched to the throat and rifling + a powder the fills the case and hits max pressure + a consistent primer + load development will get you there. Factory ammo of course give the Win Mag a huge advantage....Are there even WSM match loads?

July 6, 2018, 06:11 PM	#8
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	It would be nice to know how they had each rifle set up and what actually led them to that conclusion. I don't shoot or load either one, my .300 is either a Blackout, Savage, or H&H so I have no experience with either cartridge. However, your friends may not be wrong from their point of view. You could buy two M70, M700, T3, 10/110,.... rifles of the same type, one in .300 WM the other in WSM and the .300 WM could easily be the more accurate and precise rifle. The same could happen if you're building rifle and use exactly the same action, barrels, triggers, and stocks. I wouldn't say as a rule that the .300 WM is more or less precise, maybe their rifle was. It really has nothing to do with the cartridge, but more with the rifle maybe having the stars align better when it was built and the trigger opperator. Powders have nothing to do with it since the WSM and WM have similar case capacities the use a lot of the same powders. If you look any any reloading manual you'll see a lot of powder overlap, the .300 WM will have more powders listed only because it's been around since 1963 as a commercial load. When the WSM has 55 years of handload data I'm sure you'll see the powder overlap increase. All evidence points that the .300 WSM should be the more accurate cartridge. That doesn't mean you can't have an accurate rifle in a different but similar cartridge. My bet is that your friend/friends were already shooting a .300 WM that they had a lot of faith in, but wanted to try out the .300 WSM and gave up on it too soon. It happens more than people think and I've done it a few times myself. __________________ NRA Life Member

July 7, 2018, 03:02 PM	#9
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Blaming a cartridge for accuracy issues is like blaming being drunk on the shape of the beer can. Accuracy with any given rifle typically depends on the quality of the components used in the loads, the quality of the barrel, and the skill of the shooter. Two of those are easy to determine, the last (sadly) is often not good despite the insistence of the shooter, so we blame an inanimate object for our failures. If it were called the 300 Winchester Studly Man, no one would dare say it's the cartridge. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 7, 2018, 03:58 PM	#10
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,326	I think you guys are missing the point i’m Trying to make...300 win mag has so many great loads...just read some people posting on it and you will find what powde4 and bullet will get you close. 300wsm is great, but 90% of the discussion is on 3200+ FPS loads with 165’s & 180’s out of 24” barrels....but you really want 190’s or larger out of a 26”+ barrel. You might even be a lucky person with a match barrel that is 28” or longer and/or a 1:9 twist. Each of these conditions is basically a new powder and bullet with few people posting what works. So, then you spend your own money and time to figure it out while joe blow down the street is banging away at mile steel laughing at you with his Savage chassis gun in 300 win mag and factory ammo!

July 8, 2018, 02:07 PM	#11
disseminator Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 960	So, the reason the 300WM is favored by Precision Shooters is that it's larger case is more suitable to the very high BC 210+ grain bullets where the 300 WSM's shorter case is better with the lighter bullets. That is the only real advantage to the 300WM over the WSM. If your a hunter, I'd pick the WSM every time. With a 180-210g bullet it's a great choice for hunters because it makes it's optimum velocities from a 24" barrel vs the more common 26" for the WM and has a shorter action as well. I have a 300 WSM in a Model 70 Featherweight and I also have a 26" Model 70 classic in 7mmRM ( it's the same rifle in the 300WM version ) and the WSM is MUCH nicer to carry in the woods and shoots lights out too.