S&W Shield 9EZ shoots low

[Donald duck]

Most of the time if one is a right handed a flinch will make one shout low left.

[ciwsguy]

Geez, guys... I was only asking if anyone else has the issue with a 9EZ.
I also have a 380 EZ and it hits to POA. Can anyone make a logical conclusion from that statement?

[TunnelRat]

I think the sticking point for a number of people is that in order for this POI/POA most match to be solely due to sights your front sight would have to be 1/10” too tall. That’s a lot of material. 6” low at 10 yd is a big difference. I know you get that and it’s in part why you made this thread, it’s just more common for a shooter to be inducing an error than it is for a factory sight to be that off.

If this is a new pistol did you contact S&W in terms of a warranty repair? I know you talked to their customer service about alternate sight options, but this low at that distance if it is the pistol indicates a problem imo. Another option is using a pair of calipers to measure the front sight on your pistol and comparing to someone here or at a store if they accommodate you.


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[ciwsguy]

I did contact S&W customer service. All they did is send me links to alternate sight providers. They offer no alternate sights for the EZ. No offer for a return authorization was made.
Other than this thing hitting low from POA, I have no complaints with the gun. It is truly easy to load/field strip & rack the slide.
I’ve been shooting handguns for over 40 years and have never had one shoot this far off. I suppose I could just use kentucky elevation and aim high if I know it shoots low. Or add a laser sight

Thanks for the reply.

[JohnKSa]

You can always file down the front sight if it's not a night sight or a fiber-optic sight. A shorter front sight will make the gun shoot higher.

If it has 3 dot sights, you'll probably have to file enough off to cut into the dot, so you'll have 2 1/2 dot sights.

I have had one factory handgun with fixed sights that shot quite a bit low. However, in that case, it was a well-known problem with that gun/model and the factory admitted that they had messed up with the sights.

[pete2]

Okay, shot off bags, better groups but still shoots low. this ain't my first hand gun nor is it the first one that shot low. Happened with a Kimber 1911, Citadel 1911, 2 Ruger CMDs, a Beretta FS92. I filed the front on the 1911s, was able to get a taller rear sight for the 92. The sight on the EZ is not very tall plus it has a white dot, will file into the divot the dot is in. No way to shoot a small target when holing high, can't see the target. One way or another I'll repair it.

This seems to be a wide spread problem or people don't care......

[stinkeypete]

Sorry I missed the 6” low part near the top.

Per calculations, remove 0.1 inches from the front sight. With a nice new fine toothed metal file, it will zoop off quick.

My past experience with Smith was their indifference.
Experiences with Ruger made me go out and buy another Ruger just out of gratitude, not that I needed another!

[totaldla]

A lot of folks struggle with combat sights - makes me wonder why S&W uses them.

[ciwsguy]

Just to double check, went to rhe range today and shot at 10 yds with a sandbag rest. Still hits significantly low.
I notice that there are some performance center version of the EZ with tru glo green/red sights. These sights differ from the standard EZ factory white dots but am uncertain about sight height. My dad just purchased a 9 EZ and he also has a shoot low issue. When mine shoots low from a rest, it’s not me.
Think I’m going to replace the sights with green/red dots probably fiber optic.

[HighValleyRanch]

Again, measure your sight height, from the top of the slide to the top of the sight.
Then go to the dawson chart and enter the distance you are shooting and the measurement of the error, and they can give you the correct height of the sight that you need.

[Scorch]

A customer of mine had this exact issue. I ordered a Novak blank front sight and cut it down so POA=POI, then dimpled for a white dot, reblued the sight and put white paint in the dimple. Done.

[Donald duck]

Had a ported performance center Shield that shot low. Same front sight hight as the non ported gun. Of course it was going to shout low. A friend wanted it so I let him have it.

[ciwsguy]

So I began to wonder why my 380 EZ hits at POA. Well, the 380EZ front sight is NOT dovetailed into the slide like the 9EZ. The 380 front sight is e-clipped into the slide. The 9 EZ is dovetailed onto the slide. On the 9ez, there is also a gap between the top of the slide and the bottom of the sight outside the dovetail. It’s only about a .013 gap from what I can tell with a feeler gauge.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by ciwsguy

When mine shoots low from a rest, it’s not me.

Just curious, were you using the combat sight hold?

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by ciwsguy

On the 9ez, there is also a gap between the top of the slide and the bottom of the sight outside the dovetail.

That's not super unusual.

I think HighValleyRanch has a good idea. If you contact Dawson Precision they might have an idea.

[ciwsguy]

Look at Hiviz, Truglo and the DP replacement sights. DP looks to fill the solution bill best. I’ll replace the front sight first and should that work, I’ll replace the rear sight with fiber optic too

[pete2]

You gotta see a target to hit it. If you cover the target with the muzzle of the gun, how do you know where the target is? What if all you have is a head shot????? A gun should shoot to the TOP of the front sight, NOT somewhere below it. You gotta be able to see a target to hit it. I don't want the bullet to hit somewhere below the point of aim. I think "Combat sight hold" was invented to justify the gun shooting low. It's just poor quality. Even Glock sells different sights so you can zero the point of impact.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by pete2

You gotta see a target to hit it. If you cover the target with the muzzle of the gun, how do you know where the target is? What if all you have is a head shot????? A gun should shoot to the TOP of the front sight, NOT somewhere below it. You gotta be able to see a target to hit it. I don't want the bullet to hit somewhere below the point of aim. I think "Combat sight hold" was invented to justify the gun shooting low. It's just poor quality. Even Glock sells different sights so you can zero the point of impact.

Glock, SIG, S&W, and a number of other makers all sell pistols that I’ve owned where the default hold seems to be to cover the target at least partially with the front sight at the 10 yd distance mentioned by the OP. I’ve never found this to inhibit my ability to make a head shot on a target with a hit box for a head out to 25 yd. The case for the OP is problematic because it’s abnormal, which is why we have this thread in the first place. Most pistols set up for what is being called a combat hold do not function as the OP is describing in terms of impacting that much below POA, such as his 380 EZ that doesn’t have this problem.

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[ciwsguy]

So just for giggles, does anyone know if handgun manufacturers actually test fire each gun made to be sold? I seriously doubt it today with newly manufactured guns if sights are that far off

[ciwsguy]

Originally Posted by totaldla

Just curious, were you using the combat sight hold?

Yes

[Hawg]

Originally Posted by ciwsguy

So just for giggles, does anyone know if handgun manufacturers actually test fire each gun made to be sold? I seriously doubt it today with newly manufactured guns if sights are that far off

They test fire for function.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by ciwsguy

So just for giggles, does anyone know if handgun manufacturers actually test fire each gun made to be sold? I seriously doubt it today with newly manufactured guns if sights are that far off

It depends on the manufacturer. New Walthers used to come with test targets, as well as CZs. Not sure if they do anymore. People I’ve talked to at SIG have said the pistols are expected to hold 2” at 25 yd from a rest. Whether that’s 2” for POA=POI I don’t know.

I’ve owned literally dozens of new pistols. I never had one that came from the factory shooting 6” low at 10 yd. I’m not sure how much I’d let this particular instance color my entire opinion of the firearms industry were I you.


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[JohnKSa]

Glock, SIG, S&W, and a number of other makers all sell pistols where the default hold is to cover the point of aim with the front sight.

I only own a half-dozen or so Glocks, but none of them shoot like that except at very close range.

They are all sighted for a pretty standard 6 O'Clock hold. I've shot fewer SIGs, but the one's I've shot were set up for a 6 O'Clock hold.

In fact, with the exception of the one pistol I mentioned earlier in this thread that had sights that were very poorly chosen and shot about a foot low at 10yards, I've never shot any pistol that came from the factory with fixed sights that didn't place the bullets above the front sight at distances beyond a few yards.

Some of this confusion comes from the fact that the point of impact changes with range as explained in this thread.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=503476

Some of it, I attribute to the fact that shooting low is the most common symptom of shot anticipation.

And yes, there may actually be some makers who do sight their pistols like that and I've just never managed to run across one.

[TunnelRat]

I’m moderately sure I’m not anticipating the shot. All the sights I have currently require me to cover the target at least partially with the front sight at 10 yd, that includes my Glocks. Now to be fair I don’t keep stock Glock sights on for long because I don’t like them, so my memory may be tainted by the Ameriglos I have currently. I have ordered Dawson Precision sights where the impact is at the top of the front sight and the Colt 1911 I had was a true 6 o’clock hold.

Edit: when I say cover the POI, I mean a sight picture of #2 or #3 like here in this thread from 3.5 years ago:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...21&postcount=7

Most of the pistols in my safe at 10 yd are somewhere between #2 and #3. I have had pistols that were very much #3 at 10 yd and it wasn’t pleasant, but it wasn’t 6” at 10 yd.

And as in that thread back then I do get your point that POI relative to POA will vary based on the distance.

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[JohnKSa]

Taking your time, if you can shoot standing/unsupported 5 shot groups with your Glocks that are 4" or so in size at 25 yards, then you're doing really well with your trigger control and can be confident that you are not anticipating the shot.

At ranges like 15 yards, groups should be about 2" if you're taking your time.

At 10 yards and under, most guns I've messed with (not talking about micros and subcompacts) will shoot single-hole groups.

For example, I have a Kahr P9 and a Kahr CW9. Most would place those into the category of close-range guns, but when I was adjusting the rear sight windage to precisely sight the CW9, I shot a standing/unsupported 12 shot group at 25 yards that was less than 5" center-to-center--3" if you do best 10 of 12. Center of the group was about 5.5" above point of aim.

The last time I had the P9 at the range, I shot a standing/unsupported 25 shot group at 21 yards (max for that range) that was 5" center-to-center--4.25" if you take the best 24 of 25. Center of the group was about 4" above point of aim.

Awhile back, I shot a 10 round group through one of my Glocks using 6 different types of ammo, as a test. At 15 yards, standing/unsupported, the group was 2". Center of the group was about 1.5" above point of aim.

All of those guns had factory sights and that kind of performance is what I have come to expect in my fixed sighted guns.

What I see is that the guns and ammo, (even the relatively small ones, and even when you mix ammo) are capable of groups that are quite small.

The biggest problem I see when people are trying to evaluate the point of aim of their pistols is that they're shooting pretty large groups at relatively close ranges. That's almost invariably attributable to shot anticipation which very often tends to also push the groups low on the target.

But because many shooters are happy/satisfied with 6" groups at 10 yards, they're not interested in talking about trigger technique improvement so they would rather deal with it as a problem with the gun (sights) than get to the root of the issue.