How do you deal with an aggressive political protester?? - Page 2

Crosshair · May 31, 2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

How about a syringe filled with saline that its 19 year old wielder says is aids? Just a stupid kid right?

Nope, that is the same as robbing a store with a painted airsoft gun nearly everywhere. Even though it was fake, you presented it as if it was a real weapon.

Mike in VA · May 31, 2008, 10:09 PM

I'd try to avoid getting involved, but if some fool decided to hose me, I'da decked him and stood on his chest applying whatever pacification was necessary until the cops arrived (I liked the OC approach-), at which point I'd press charges for assault+, followed up with a civil suit.

I'm all for free speech & protest, but if you think you're going to use me to make you point, you'd better think again.

Boris Bush · May 31, 2008, 10:15 PM

These guys are easy to tear apart. Outside of a rodeo one time a protestor was wearing a leather coat...........

I very politely informed him his leather coat was one time a cow and is a bald fur coat. PETA protestor, was even better, she had on some high dollar German sandels made with leather straps. She tried to rip my eyeballs out.

I have worked or run into these types on ocasion and they always seem to have a leather belt, wallet, shoes, couch, leather seats in their car, rawhide strap with stones around their neck.

With that said I worked with a guy that was 100% animal free. So I just told him carrots have feelings too...........

BillCA · May 31, 2008, 10:51 PM

So, minding my own business a man in protective clothing sprays me with a liquid he claims is "poison". What am I to do?

At this stage of the game, adding up the protective gear, his statment of "poison" and his unwarranted dispensing of the material on me, I'm going to assume that he has actually sprayed some kind of poison on me. This is gives me reasonable cause to believe a felony just occurred in my presence (and against my person). Life threatening? Maybe, but it doesn't seem so at the moment.

Response: Hauling his whacko a** to the ground and/or pepper spraying him. Then, use sufficient force to affect his arrest (and telling him he's under arrest).

When PD responds, inform them of the possibility that an unknown poison is in the container AND the surrounding area. Request an ambulance and HazMat team. When it is discovered to be "only water", the protester gets billed by the city for the Hazmat & ambulance response -- usually on the order of $8,000-$12,000.

The downside is that during the struggle, if he starts spraying the solution into my face/mouth/nose and refuses to quit he's going to be "poisoned" with copper and lead.

rantingredneck · May 31, 2008, 11:24 PM

I agree /\

threegun · June 1, 2008, 02:47 PM

The crazy protester is coming toward you dressed in a protective suit spraying everyone he can with a liquid he claims to be poison. You can't retreat (cornered) and don't have pepper to deploy. Do you use your firearm or not?

txbirddog · June 1, 2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

The crazy protester is coming toward you dressed in a protective suit spraying everyone he can with a liquid he claims to be poison. You can't retreat (cornered) and don't have pepper to deploy. Do you use your firearm or not?

Sounds like my life, or those of my loved ones, is in danger of harm....what do you think??

threegun · June 1, 2008, 04:25 PM

Txbirddog, I agree with you. My question was posed mainly to those who feel that this doesn't warrant the use of deadly force.

Many of these same folks wouldn't allow themselves to be jabbed with a syringe claimed to be filled with Aids.

LanceOregon · June 1, 2008, 06:02 PM

Well, since people are already condemning the local police force for having used a taser on the fellow to subdue him, I think that if one of the civilians he sprayed had shot him, that these same folks would be demanding that person's hide.

This did take place at a high traffic downtown mall, where many people work and shop.

I think that this is an important issue to consider, for anyone carrying a handgun. Where do you draw the line at pulling your firearm or not?

It also brings up the issue of whether one should also carry some type of non-lethal weapon like pepper spray or a taser, to compliment your handgun.

I personally also carry one of the second generation Taser civilian models, the Taser C2. They are far smaller and lighter than the first generation models, and thus not at all hard to conceal.

Here is another press report on the incident. This one, however, does not mention anything about spraying people passing by, like the initial TV news report did. It claims that the police arrested the protester for blocking traffic, as well as disorderly conduct. But it does also say that the protester threatened to spray poison into the face of officers, when they spoke to him. That certainly would seem to me to go well outside the protections of the 1st Amendment, which the protesters are all claiming.

Two other protesters did attack the arresting officers, as they tried to arrest the first man. So they were also subdued and arrested as well.

It turns out the arresting officers were part of the city's downtown bicycle patrol. These officer all look very lean, fit, and muscular, as they spend all of their time patrolling the downtown area on bicycle. I certainly would not want to wrestle with any of them.

Here is this other news report:

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms...31&sid=4&fid=2

rampage841512 · June 1, 2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

I'd hose him back with pepper spray.

Ditto.

threegun · June 1, 2008, 06:48 PM

Rampage, What if you didn't have pepper or an escape route?

Wildalaska · June 1, 2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

What do you do if you are ever confronted by an aggressive political protester who wants to use you in order to make a political point?

As soon as they get close, puke on em!

WilditsastatementAlaska TM

Sigma 40 Blaster · June 1, 2008, 07:56 PM

I had a similar thought, WA, but it would have been fluid from a different body part.

Short of someone running around in a Bio suit claiming to be spraying Nicin or something extreme I can't see shooting a political protester, as much as they might need it.

It kind of scares me that a lot of people are looking for reasons they WOULD shoot someone versus ways they could avoid shooting someone. Makes us look a little blood thirsty doesn't it?

ActivShootr · June 1, 2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

As soon as they get close, puke on em!

I like it. Tell 'em you must have eaten some bad vegetable soup. Then go get a cheeseburger.

:barf:

zxcvbob · June 1, 2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

What if you didn't have pepper or an escape route?

You release the *tiger*

grey sky · June 1, 2008, 11:54 PM

I have always wondered about the protestors throwing paint on furs or whatever and if they are charged with assault civil or criminal charges ect. It does not seem corect that an adult could afford to repeat this behavior considering legal cost of defense even if backed by some group?
It amazes me more thrashings don't result from this behavior?

TexasSeaRay · June 2, 2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

It kind of scares me that a lot of people are looking for reasons they WOULD shoot someone versus ways they could avoid shooting someone. Makes us look a little blood thirsty doesn't it?

Sigma,

When I got (voluntarily) recalled for the first Gulf War, several of my missions were inside Bagdhad and then west of Bagdhad. Every time Hussein would launch one of his damned Scud missiles, the chemical fallout some of us were exposed to did irreparable damage.

Some of the Israeli commandos I worked with were scared to death of Hussein's threat to use bio weapons--and trust me, I've worked with a lot of Israelis and NEVER seen them scared like that before.

I've done some hairy things and been in some even hairier situations, but NOTHING scares me more than bad, unknown chemicals being used on me or against me.

Talk about triggering an instead flashback/delayed stress syndrome reaction.

If the hairy hippie punk had told me it was just water and then doused me or my wife, I would've hurt him right then, right there. Your fist ends where my nose begins.

But if--as the reports are saying--he was dressed up in anything resembling a MOPP suit and claiming he had poison and pointed his sprayer at me, I would've shot and killed him instantly and without a second thought and never lost a minute's sleep over it.

There are some things and some people you just don't mess around with. Idiots with, or claiming to have, dangerous chemicals and threatening you with them fall into both categories.

Jeff

Wildalaska · June 2, 2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

There are some things and some people you just don't mess around with. Idiots with, or claiming to have, dangerous chemicals and threatening you with them fall into both categories.

Like Saddam Hussien

WildgladsomeonehereseesthelightAlaska TM

grey sky · June 2, 2008, 03:53 AM

Is this not akin to shouting FIRE in a theater?
I have no sympathy for this citizen the police reaction to "I am spraying poison" a quick take down is appropriate.
When an accidental breaking of a mercury thermometer in a school gets a haz mat team response, this should have goten no less untill the unknown substance was identified. All the protestors should have been arrested on the spot as co-conspiritors to creating panick.

BillCA · June 2, 2008, 04:46 AM

TexasSeaRay,

Well said.

My only quibble is that if I can see people reacting to being sprayed and the only distress they show is one of getting wet, I may not resort to lethal force right away.

Sigma40 - I don't think it makes us look blood-thirsty at all.

If, in a public place, you have one person dressed in a bio suit (protective gear) who is spraying people with an unknown substance, preparing to draw on such a person is not unwarranted. If one has time to observe the reaction to being sprayed and sees no immediate harm the threat-reaction drops a bit. But if the person turns towards me as his newest target, he'll get to inspect the muzzle. If he decides not to abort his actions he will reap the result of his folly.

LanceOregon

Quote:

Well, since people are already condemning the local police force for having used a taser on the fellow to subdue him, I think that if one of the civilians he sprayed had shot him, that these same folks would be demanding that person's hide

.
Perhaps, but not with much legal basis. This is equivilant to the protester holding a rubber knife painted to look real and uttering "I'm going to kill you". It's a credible threat that must be dealt with immediately based on limited information.

grey sky · June 2, 2008, 05:09 AM

I never did care for hippies, throwbacks and hangers on are even worse. Read the signature line

threegun · June 2, 2008, 07:55 AM

Quote:

It kind of scares me that a lot of people are looking for reasons they WOULD shoot someone versus ways they could avoid shooting someone. Makes us look a little blood thirsty doesn't it?

Considering that shooting the BG is most folks last resort and only to avoid getting sprayed with a claimed poison, I think you are way off base here.

B.A. · June 3, 2008, 01:23 AM

Not knowing the full details and not having been there myself, a couple of things spring to mind:

1. Assuming this was a large demonstration involving lots of people, banners, placards, bull horns, chanting and provocative costumes, wouldn't it be pretty obvious to a passer-by that the guy was pulling a prank?

2. Assuming (1.) was the case, wouldn't it be rather easy to stay away from the spectacle (and this clown)?

3. In the event that the guy did get close enough to you, would pepper/OC spray have helped? The guy was wearing some kind of protective gear; would that have included face/gas mask?

Pulling silly stunts like that certainly warrants a good hiding, but hardly deadly force, in my book. The guy is immature, ignorant and stupid and has a twisted idea of political expression, but doesnt necessarily need shooting.
Good on the cops and I dont see any police brutality in the way they handled it. Just imagine how he would have been treated if he pulled a stunt like that in an airport. Or on an airplane!

chadwimc · June 3, 2008, 01:55 AM

I'm getting too old, fat, and slow to wrestle with protesters. Can I just kick him in the balls???

LanceOregon · June 3, 2008, 02:08 AM

Looks like the complaint letters have started.

This letter complains about the electrocution of University Students:

http://media.www.dailyemerald.com/me...ntedstoriestab

You can see in this letter the sort of 1st Amendment argument that is being made to say that this sort of activity was legal.

P.S. - How could any parents manage to name their child "Planet" ???

.

May 31, 2008, 10:09 PM	#27
Mike in VA Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 1998 Location: Santa FE, NM Posts: 2,163	I'd try to avoid getting involved, but if some fool decided to hose me, I'da decked him and stood on his chest applying whatever pacification was necessary until the cops arrived (I liked the OC approach-), at which point I'd press charges for assault+, followed up with a civil suit. I'm all for free speech & protest, but if you think you're going to use me to make you point, you'd better think again. __________________ M2 The Second Amendment IS homeland defense!

May 31, 2008, 10:51 PM	#29
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	So, minding my own business a man in protective clothing sprays me with a liquid he claims is "poison". What am I to do? At this stage of the game, adding up the protective gear, his statment of "poison" and his unwarranted dispensing of the material on me, I'm going to assume that he has actually sprayed some kind of poison on me. This is gives me reasonable cause to believe a felony just occurred in my presence (and against my person). Life threatening? Maybe, but it doesn't seem so at the moment. Response: Hauling his whacko a** to the ground and/or pepper spraying him. Then, use sufficient force to affect his arrest (and telling him he's under arrest). When PD responds, inform them of the possibility that an unknown poison is in the container AND the surrounding area. Request an ambulance and HazMat team. When it is discovered to be "only water", the protester gets billed by the city for the Hazmat & ambulance response -- usually on the order of $8,000-$12,000. The downside is that during the struggle, if he starts spraying the solution into my face/mouth/nose and refuses to quit he's going to be "poisoned" with copper and lead. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

June 1, 2008, 11:54 PM	#41
grey sky Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2007 Posts: 324	unknown aerosol I have always wondered about the protestors throwing paint on furs or whatever and if they are charged with assault civil or criminal charges ect. It does not seem corect that an adult could afford to repeat this behavior considering legal cost of defense even if backed by some group? It amazes me more thrashings don't result from this behavior?

May 31, 2008, 10:15 PM	#28
Boris Bush Junior member Join Date: September 7, 2007 Posts: 921	These guys are easy to tear apart. Outside of a rodeo one time a protestor was wearing a leather coat........... I very politely informed him his leather coat was one time a cow and is a bald fur coat. PETA protestor, was even better, she had on some high dollar German sandels made with leather straps. She tried to rip my eyeballs out. I have worked or run into these types on ocasion and they always seem to have a leather belt, wallet, shoes, couch, leather seats in their car, rawhide strap with stones around their neck. With that said I worked with a guy that was 100% animal free. So I just told him carrots have feelings too...........

May 31, 2008, 11:24 PM	#30
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	I agree /\

June 1, 2008, 02:47 PM	#31
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	The crazy protester is coming toward you dressed in a protective suit spraying everyone he can with a liquid he claims to be poison. You can't retreat (cornered) and don't have pepper to deploy. Do you use your firearm or not?

June 1, 2008, 04:25 PM	#33
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	Txbirddog, I agree with you. My question was posed mainly to those who feel that this doesn't warrant the use of deadly force. Many of these same folks wouldn't allow themselves to be jabbed with a syringe claimed to be filled with Aids.

June 1, 2008, 06:02 PM	#34
LanceOregon Junior member Join Date: May 10, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,774	Well, since people are already condemning the local police force for having used a taser on the fellow to subdue him, I think that if one of the civilians he sprayed had shot him, that these same folks would be demanding that person's hide. This did take place at a high traffic downtown mall, where many people work and shop. I think that this is an important issue to consider, for anyone carrying a handgun. Where do you draw the line at pulling your firearm or not? It also brings up the issue of whether one should also carry some type of non-lethal weapon like pepper spray or a taser, to compliment your handgun. I personally also carry one of the second generation Taser civilian models, the Taser C2. They are far smaller and lighter than the first generation models, and thus not at all hard to conceal. Here is another press report on the incident. This one, however, does not mention anything about spraying people passing by, like the initial TV news report did. It claims that the police arrested the protester for blocking traffic, as well as disorderly conduct. But it does also say that the protester threatened to spray poison into the face of officers, when they spoke to him. That certainly would seem to me to go well outside the protections of the 1st Amendment, which the protesters are all claiming. Two other protesters did attack the arresting officers, as they tried to arrest the first man. So they were also subdued and arrested as well. It turns out the arresting officers were part of the city's downtown bicycle patrol. These officer all look very lean, fit, and muscular, as they spend all of their time patrolling the downtown area on bicycle. I certainly would not want to wrestle with any of them. Here is this other news report: http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms...31&sid=4&fid=2

June 1, 2008, 06:48 PM	#36
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	Rampage, What if you didn't have pepper or an escape route?

June 1, 2008, 07:56 PM	#38
Sigma 40 Blaster Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: East Texas Posts: 997	I had a similar thought, WA, but it would have been fluid from a different body part. Short of someone running around in a Bio suit claiming to be spraying Nicin or something extreme I can't see shooting a political protester, as much as they might need it. It kind of scares me that a lot of people are looking for reasons they WOULD shoot someone versus ways they could avoid shooting someone. Makes us look a little blood thirsty doesn't it?

June 2, 2008, 03:53 AM	#44
grey sky Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2007 Posts: 324	Is this not akin to shouting FIRE in a theater? I have no sympathy for this citizen the police reaction to "I am spraying poison" a quick take down is appropriate. When an accidental breaking of a mercury thermometer in a school gets a haz mat team response, this should have goten no less untill the unknown substance was identified. All the protestors should have been arrested on the spot as co-conspiritors to creating panick.

June 2, 2008, 05:09 AM	#46
grey sky Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2007 Posts: 324	I never did care for hippies, throwbacks and hangers on are even worse. Read the signature line

June 3, 2008, 01:23 AM	#48
B.A. Member Join Date: May 20, 2008 Location: East Africa Posts: 67	Not knowing the full details and not having been there myself, a couple of things spring to mind: 1. Assuming this was a large demonstration involving lots of people, banners, placards, bull horns, chanting and provocative costumes, wouldn't it be pretty obvious to a passer-by that the guy was pulling a prank? 2. Assuming (1.) was the case, wouldn't it be rather easy to stay away from the spectacle (and this clown)? 3. In the event that the guy did get close enough to you, would pepper/OC spray have helped? The guy was wearing some kind of protective gear; would that have included face/gas mask? Pulling silly stunts like that certainly warrants a good hiding, but hardly deadly force, in my book. The guy is immature, ignorant and stupid and has a twisted idea of political expression, but doesnt necessarily need shooting. Good on the cops and I dont see any police brutality in the way they handled it. Just imagine how he would have been treated if he pulled a stunt like that in an airport. Or on an airplane!

June 3, 2008, 01:55 AM	#49
chadwimc Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 155	I'm getting too old, fat, and slow to wrestle with protesters. Can I just kick him in the balls???

June 3, 2008, 02:08 AM	#50
LanceOregon Junior member Join Date: May 10, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,774	Looks like the complaint letters have started. This letter complains about the electrocution of University Students: http://media.www.dailyemerald.com/me...ntedstoriestab You can see in this letter the sort of 1st Amendment argument that is being made to say that this sort of activity was legal. P.S. - How could any parents manage to name their child "Planet" ??? .