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Old October 5, 2017, 06:43 PM   #26
jrinne0430
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Setting a bad precedence by sacrificing something. If we do, we will have to again in the future. Unfortunately, these killings are going to happening again and again (the cause is never addressed) and we will have to continue to give ground. The beast will never be full and once we feed it, it will demand more.
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Old October 5, 2017, 06:45 PM   #27
50 shooter
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Typical, NRA compromising on your rights!

I'm glad I'm no longer a member, Wayne needs to go forever before I would even think about joining again!

Maybe they can compromise on any firearm that's black and evil and can hold 30 rounds or more in a detachable box magazine!

Or maybe they can waste more money calling you and sending out more letters asking you for more money! All of you members should send them letters letting them know that you're in a compromise over renewing your membership because they're compromising once again with the wrong people!

Once again I'm disgusted with the NRA! Wouldn't take the membership if it was free!
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Old October 5, 2017, 06:46 PM   #28
mehavey
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then don't.
simple.
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Old October 5, 2017, 06:48 PM   #29
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stroge
...THEY SHOULD HAVE ASKED CONGRESS TO TAKE ACTION!!! We need legislation! LAWS! ...
No, actually we do not.

The point is to keep this a regulatory matter, especially in light of past actions by ATF with regard bump-fire stocks. In Congress, especially right now, political pressure for extravagant solutions will be enormous and difficult to resist.

Be it remembered that in the mid 1960s the political climate in the wake of the assassinations of JFK, RFK, and MLK was such that it would have been pretty much impossible to avoid some version of the Gun Control Act of 1968. But adroit political maneuvering was able to ameliorate some of the worst provisions of the law as originally proposed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrinne0430
...The NRA and some RINOs decided to play politics...
Of course it's politics. It's always been politics; it's politics now; and forever shall be politics -- world without end. That's how decisions are made as a group composed of people with disparate interests, beliefs, and values.

The reality is that we live in a pluralistic, political society, and not everyone thinks as we do. People have varying beliefs, values, needs, wants and fears. People have differing views on the proper role government. So while we may be using the tools the Constitution, our laws and our system give us to promote our vision of how things should be, others may and will be using those same tools to promote their visions.

The Constitution, our laws, and our system give us resource and remedies. We can associate with others who think as we do and exercise what political power that association gives us to influence legislation. We have the opportunity to try to join with enough other people we can elect legislators and other public officials who we consider more attuned to our interests. And we can seek redress in court. And others who believe differently have the same opportunities.

Success will depend on political acumen. Holding one's breath until turning blue isn't a very effective strategy.
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Old October 5, 2017, 06:50 PM   #30
zukiphile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Roberts
My splits with a stock AR trigger are around 0.2.
If we outlaw Jerry Miculek, only outlaws will have Jerry Mikulek.
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Old October 5, 2017, 07:01 PM   #31
johnwilliamson062
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Small price, and effectively useless to a rifleman...
2A only covers riflemen?

For ATFE to regulate this they need to change definition of a machine gun. Obama would have loved to ban, but it does not meet definition. If they are allowed to redefine there will be decades of consequences in regard to every minute ambiguity.
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Old October 5, 2017, 07:09 PM   #32
JohnKSa
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Quote:
For ATFE to regulate this they need to change definition of a machine gun.
That's not within their ability. They can't rewrite law, they can only issue opinion letters based on their interpretation.
Quote:
I think it's a mistake to ask the ATF to review bump stocks. This should be a decision for Congress.
I disagree. I think the best course of action is to do nothing, but given the choice between a BATF ruling and a new anti-gun law, I think the BATF ruling is preferable.

1. BATF has been known to reverse their rulings. Laws are hard to undo.
2. If the folks screaming for a new law can be placated while BATF deliberates, it could provide a very useful cooling off period. Those are really important because most anti-gun legislation needs fresh, raw emotion to pass. Once things cool down then facts and logic tend to prevail.
3. It would reinforce the NRA mantra that we have all the gun laws we need, they just need to be enforced.
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Old October 5, 2017, 07:12 PM   #33
mehavey
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Sorry guys. Those bump stocks nominally put out 3-4,000 rounds inside of 10 minutes last Sunday.
No amount of "scientific/explanatory logic" will make a hill of beans difference at this point. It's toast.
' You'd better hope that's all we lose as this thing plays out
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Old October 5, 2017, 07:12 PM   #34
JoeSixpack
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Good point John.
I think you're right a ATF reversal would likely be the cleanest way of doing it.
They could target very specific products rather than try to rewrite comprehensive language that only specifically targets what you want without loop holes or unexpected consequences.

Not that I want even that to happen.
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Old October 5, 2017, 07:14 PM   #35
Bartholomew Roberts
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Well, I'm not going to quit NRA; but it is plain a Cincinnati II is way overdue.
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Old October 5, 2017, 07:15 PM   #36
zukiphile
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Quote:
I think the best course of action is to do nothing...
I love doing nothing. Inaction in the face of fresh and persuasive information keeps one from making blunders that were plain in hindsight.

Doing nothing saves us from destructive error. To paraphrase Edmund Burke don't just do something, stand there.
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Old October 5, 2017, 07:35 PM   #37
jrinne0430
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I have made phone calls (to include my reps), sent emails, letters, posts, spreading the word, etc.. I will put up a fight as I know more bans and regulations will follow after the next shooting.
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Old October 5, 2017, 07:39 PM   #38
johnwilliamson062
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Quote:
That's not within their ability. They can't rewrite law, they can only issue opinion letters based on their interpretation.
Legally it isn't, but congress has shown an incredible ability to ignore significant oversteps of the executive branch when it allows them to avoid going on record on controversial subjects, especially when powerful and organized interest groups are involved.

Maybe 80-90% of Americans may agree with banning bump stocks, but the remaining 10-20% are key to Republicans winning the next election. They won't vote Democrat, but they might stay home. Anything Republicans can do to avoid a recorded vote will be done. Democrats will surely go along.
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Old October 5, 2017, 07:41 PM   #39
Targa
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You'd better hope that's all we lose as this thing plays out
Yep
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Old October 5, 2017, 08:04 PM   #40
Joe_Pike
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It seems amazing to me how many people are willing to "throw a bone" to the gun grabbers when it doesn't affect them directly.....this time. Me, I'm ready to reset the laws back to 1933.
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Old October 5, 2017, 08:31 PM   #41
steve4102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts
How is the NRA going to justify that 600rpm needs to be regulated and 300rpm is A-OK?
Why would they have to justify this and why would they try.

All the NRA did was issue a statement letting the world know that it was the Obama ATF that allowed the use of Bump-Stocks, not the NRA and not President Trump.

They also called on the ATF to reevaluate the Bump-Stocks to see if they comply with existing Federal laws.

They will not have to justify anything, it will be up to the ATF and to Congress.

They simple put the blame where it belongs and threw the ball back at the ATF and Congress.
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Old October 5, 2017, 08:44 PM   #42
Bartholomew Roberts
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Look! The NRA's strategy is already paying dividends. The antis paused almost an hour before demanding more concessions...

https://mobile.twitter.com/MatttDavi...2017%2F10%2F02

Pelosi said, “So what they are going to say if you give them bump-stocks it’s going to be a slippery slope I certainly hope so.”

steve,4102 you appear to be forgetting this part of the NRA statement: "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations." That's not putting the blame back on Obama. That is an affirmative statement that currently legal firearm accessories should be subject to additional regulation.
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Old October 5, 2017, 09:11 PM   #43
JoeSixpack
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LOL Background checks.. but there are loop holes, like online sales, *rolls eyes*

Most of these shooters get their guns thru dealers with those back ground checks.


Yup looks like popeye got her spinish.. they smell weakness.
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Old October 5, 2017, 09:17 PM   #44
TXAZ
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Bump fire stocks are a joke, and I'm really surprised the Obama admin allowed them. I really don't care, and if it's a bone that can be traded for tax reform, go for it.

That said, look at Chicago and tell me more gun laws reduce the crime rate, or restrictions on a bump fire stock.
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Old October 5, 2017, 09:37 PM   #45
rickyrick
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You have to admit that this tragedy is very eye opening.
Never used a bump-stock and considered them to be an idiotic form of sophmoric entertainment.
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Old October 5, 2017, 10:42 PM   #46
SonOfScubaDiver
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Well, the Lord and Master of all things bang has spoken. Now be good subjects, run along, and tell everyone you know that your marching orders have been given. No more bump stocks!

In case it isn't obvious, I don't care for the NRA much. I think this organization has done more to divide this nation than any other.
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Old October 5, 2017, 10:43 PM   #47
TennJed
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Good for the NRA
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Old October 5, 2017, 10:53 PM   #48
edteach
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You can down load a file to 3d print one, you can build one for under 10 bucks with out much trouble. If someone wants one it can be done. The NRA has lost me over this and a lot of toher people.
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Old October 5, 2017, 10:55 PM   #49
edteach
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So what are you willing to trad for over 10 round mags and what will you trade for Assault rifles or semi autos?
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Old October 6, 2017, 12:39 AM   #50
C7AR15
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Any accessory can be banned

Back in the 1980s Lawn Darts were all the rage. But after 8 years, 6,100 people ended up in emergency departments.

The Consumer Product Safety Commission stepped in and banned them. Labeled as a unsafe product.

I'm sure this agency could be used to remove bump stocks from the store shelves.
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