why isnt the .45 SWC a popular defensive round? - Page 2

Dwight55 · December 2, 2009, 10:12 AM

If you shoot SWC ammo into something that you know it won't fully penetrate, you will see why they don't really make excellent self defense ammo.

The first things to go by the way side is that nice flat shoulder that makes the pretty round holes in the paper. That leaves you with a bullet that more closely resembles a 158 grain round nosed .38 special load.

The lead in SWC ammo I used to buy (for my own reloads) was very soft, and they just went to pieces in telephone book practice.

As far as their having a loading problem. I have shot any number of 1911's and NEVER had one that would not shoot SWC ammo straight out of the box with no mods whatsoever. SWC ammo was originally engineered to do just that, . . . make pretty round paper holes, . . . be easy to re-capture, melt, and re-cast, . . . and feed 100% reliably in all 1911's.

May God bless,
Dwight

bentrod · December 2, 2009, 09:09 PM

Neil will fix you up.

He loads for a lot of BE shooters.

http://www.nsksales.com/

20nickels · December 3, 2009, 02:10 PM

"The 185-200 gr target SWCs outperformed 230 gr RN ball? Says who? In what way do they outperform? More accurate? More penetration? Or more distructive?"
The NRA thinks so and so do I. Anything RN sucks for SD, even in .45. Yes it penetrates more, but has no meplat. Any increase in meplat size that doesn't restrict function is most welcome.

Archie · December 3, 2009, 11:28 PM

A 200 to 230 grain lead SWC at 850 to 1000 feet per second is a rather potent and useful defensive round. It is certainly more effective than a similar RNJ and probably more effective than a JHP that fails (for any reason) to expand. The defined leading edge of the bullet tends to tear things it hits rather than slide around them.

In the period between the Second World War and the 1990s, such a loading became very popular and widely used. This was the period the more adventurous folks were starting to carry auto pistols and finding FMJ somewhat lacking.

In the 80s and 90s, reliable hollow points became more and more available. The jacketed hollow point gave less leading - always a plus - and became more 'desirable' in the same way wide white wall tires were replaced by narrow white walls.

Then there's the 'legality' argument. From which I will refrain.

The sum total is now 'everyone knows' JHP are the dernier cri of defensive handgun rounds.

However, in terms of self-defense effectiveness, lead SWC still do a fine job; within the limits of any hand gun level round.

XD Gunner · December 3, 2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

I don't know of any semi-auto able to feed wadcutters.

You know, I have seen a lot of talk about semi-auto's and SWC's, especially the XD. I have fired 500 or so SWCs and never had a problem that was due to the shape of the SWC bullet. I've had some issues with the actual case not being to spec and the bullet not fully feeding into the chamber, but never a feeding issue due to the sharp shoulder. My 1911 feeds the same rounds just as well as the XD does. Maybe I just got lucky?

tlm225 · December 12, 2009, 11:16 AM

As to why it's not a more popular defensive round, my thought is that people chose HP's for performance or RN for feed reliability. Personally, in the absence of a good performing HP I would prefer a SWC over a RN provided that the SWC fed reliably in the gun.

December 2, 2009, 10:12 AM	#26
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	If you shoot SWC ammo into something that you know it won't fully penetrate, you will see why they don't really make excellent self defense ammo. The first things to go by the way side is that nice flat shoulder that makes the pretty round holes in the paper. That leaves you with a bullet that more closely resembles a 158 grain round nosed .38 special load. The lead in SWC ammo I used to buy (for my own reloads) was very soft, and they just went to pieces in telephone book practice. As far as their having a loading problem. I have shot any number of 1911's and NEVER had one that would not shoot SWC ammo straight out of the box with no mods whatsoever. SWC ammo was originally engineered to do just that, . . . make pretty round paper holes, . . . be easy to re-capture, melt, and re-cast, . . . and feed 100% reliably in all 1911's. May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

December 2, 2009, 09:09 PM	#27
bentrod Member Join Date: August 4, 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 34	Comercial .45 ACP swc loads Neil will fix you up. He loads for a lot of BE shooters. http://www.nsksales.com/

December 3, 2009, 02:10 PM	#28
20nickels Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2007 Posts: 274	Bluetrain "The 185-200 gr target SWCs outperformed 230 gr RN ball? Says who? In what way do they outperform? More accurate? More penetration? Or more distructive?" The NRA thinks so and so do I. Anything RN sucks for SD, even in .45. Yes it penetrates more, but has no meplat. Any increase in meplat size that doesn't restrict function is most welcome. __________________ Hillary is a bum.

December 3, 2009, 11:28 PM	#29
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Fashion and 'Common Wisdom' A 200 to 230 grain lead SWC at 850 to 1000 feet per second is a rather potent and useful defensive round. It is certainly more effective than a similar RNJ and probably more effective than a JHP that fails (for any reason) to expand. The defined leading edge of the bullet tends to tear things it hits rather than slide around them. In the period between the Second World War and the 1990s, such a loading became very popular and widely used. This was the period the more adventurous folks were starting to carry auto pistols and finding FMJ somewhat lacking. In the 80s and 90s, reliable hollow points became more and more available. The jacketed hollow point gave less leading - always a plus - and became more 'desirable' in the same way wide white wall tires were replaced by narrow white walls. Then there's the 'legality' argument. From which I will refrain. The sum total is now 'everyone knows' JHP are the dernier cri of defensive handgun rounds. However, in terms of self-defense effectiveness, lead SWC still do a fine job; within the limits of any hand gun level round. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

December 12, 2009, 11:16 AM	#31
tlm225 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 962	As to why it's not a more popular defensive round, my thought is that people chose HP's for performance or RN for feed reliability. Personally, in the absence of a good performing HP I would prefer a SWC over a RN provided that the SWC fed reliably in the gun. __________________ All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke