History Channel's M16 Documentary

Road_Clam · November 11, 2018, 09:10 PM

Sorry if this is a repost, stumbled upon this HC vid and was an excellent M16 history and evolvement. Very informative :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d59EWOzjtSo

TXAZ · November 11, 2018, 09:52 PM

Saw this about a year ago.

Eugene Stoner was incredibly insightful.
The video notes: "At least 50% of rifles failed to work." (discussion about issues after firefights)

And like every new weapons system, there were a lot of initial issues. And the M16 probably was deployed too soon.

Were the failures in Vietnam due to lack of a chrome plated chamber or not?

Any feelings out there on it?

TJB101 · November 11, 2018, 10:19 PM

Was good to watch .... thanks for posting.

50 shooter · November 12, 2018, 12:37 AM

The failures were due to space age tech that didn't need to be cleaned. The other issue was the change from stick to ball powder in the ammo.

Chrome lined barrels came later, once the other two issues were fixed, the M16 ran fine. I'm sure there are guys that remember the sweet 16 booklets that were sent out.

They basically pointed out how to properly clean and maintain their M16. How anyone could tell you that you never had to clean your rifle is beyond me. Especially one that craps on itself and exposed to dirt, sweat, humidity...

Brian Pfleuger · November 12, 2018, 12:53 AM

The first spoken words call it "The most powerful assault rifle ever used in combat...",...

Doc TH · November 12, 2018, 01:57 AM

I'm not a particular fan of the History channel's firearm pieces. Among the many inaccuracies they have presented was their repeating the BS folk tale that GIs were killed as a result of the "ping" sound made by the ejected M1clips, signifying their rifles were empty. Leaving aside the improbability of an enemy being able to hear a "ping" during a firefight, the American Rifleman mag. responded to a question re. this legend and stated that their review of the available data showed no instances that this was ever substantiated.

TXAZ · November 12, 2018, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger

The first spoken words call it "The most powerful assault rifle ever used in combat...",...

If you've never touched a gun, and you're the script writer and someone tells you to write the script, of course you're going to come out with something bold, exciting (and wrong).

Brian Pfleuger · November 12, 2018, 07:37 PM

Yes indeed, but I use what I call the Law of Credibility... that is, if simplistic/basic information is presented that I know to be wrong then anything said of which I am not certain is automatically assumed to also be false.

Or, in this case, when the first thing you say is so unbelievably dumb... I don’t stick around long enough to hear the second thing you say.

agtman · November 13, 2018, 02:53 PM

Quote:

The video notes: "At least 50% of rifles failed to work." (discussion about issues after firefights).

Real confidence booster there.

Quote:

And like every new weapons system, there were a lot of initial issues. And the M16 probably was deployed too soon.

You can thank 'efficiency expert' Robert McNamara for that.

When there's not enough time to do it right, there's always time to do it over.

Except this screw-up came with a U.S.G.I. body-count attached to it ... unlike the perfectly good M14 rifle the M16 replaced.

Quote:

Were the failures in Vietnam due to lack of a chrome plated chamber or not?

Some of them, supposedly ....

But that feature did make for an uber-reliable jam-o-matic. Unfortunately, the jams always seemed to occur at just the wrong time - i.e., when the soldier needed his weapon to go 'bang.'

pblanc · November 13, 2018, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXAZ

Saw this about a year ago.

Eugene Stoner was incredibly insightful.
The video notes: "At least 50% of rifles failed to work." (discussion about issues after firefights)

And like every new weapons system, there were a lot of initial issues. And the M16 probably was deployed too soon.

Were the failures in Vietnam due to lack of a chrome plated chamber or not?

Any feelings out there on it?

The failure to chrome-line the chambers was a major factor given the jungle environment. But the substitution of ball powder for stick powder not only made the rifles get dirty more quickly, it also increased the cyclic rate well beyond design criteria rendering extraction problematical.

And the failure to issue cleaning kits was the third element of the trifecta of stupidity.

November 11, 2018, 09:10 PM	#1
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	History Channel's M16 Documentary Sorry if this is a repost, stumbled upon this HC vid and was an excellent M16 history and evolvement. Very informative : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d59EWOzjtSo __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid" Last edited by Road_Clam; November 11, 2018 at 09:53 PM.

November 11, 2018, 09:52 PM	#2
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Saw this about a year ago. Eugene Stoner was incredibly insightful. The video notes: "At least 50% of rifles failed to work." (discussion about issues after firefights) And like every new weapons system, there were a lot of initial issues. And the M16 probably was deployed too soon. Were the failures in Vietnam due to lack of a chrome plated chamber or not? Any feelings out there on it? __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

November 12, 2018, 12:37 AM	#4
50 shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2002 Location: SoCal PRK Posts: 986	The failures were due to space age tech that didn't need to be cleaned. The other issue was the change from stick to ball powder in the ammo. Chrome lined barrels came later, once the other two issues were fixed, the M16 ran fine. I'm sure there are guys that remember the sweet 16 booklets that were sent out. They basically pointed out how to properly clean and maintain their M16. How anyone could tell you that you never had to clean your rifle is beyond me. Especially one that craps on itself and exposed to dirt, sweat, humidity... __________________ I see the world thru bloodshot eyes Streets filled with blood from distant lies The dogs of war never compromise, No time for rearranging.

November 12, 2018, 12:53 AM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	The first spoken words call it "The most powerful assault rifle ever used in combat...",... __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

November 12, 2018, 07:37 PM	#8
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Yes indeed, but I use what I call the Law of Credibility... that is, if simplistic/basic information is presented that I know to be wrong then anything said of which I am not certain is automatically assumed to also be false. Or, in this case, when the first thing you say is so unbelievably dumb... I don’t stick around long enough to hear the second thing you say. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

November 11, 2018, 10:19 PM	#3
TJB101 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2017 Posts: 498	Was good to watch .... thanks for posting.

November 12, 2018, 01:57 AM	#6
Doc TH Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Posts: 633	I'm not a particular fan of the History channel's firearm pieces. Among the many inaccuracies they have presented was their repeating the BS folk tale that GIs were killed as a result of the "ping" sound made by the ejected M1clips, signifying their rifles were empty. Leaving aside the improbability of an enemy being able to hear a "ping" during a firefight, the American Rifleman mag. responded to a question re. this legend and stated that their review of the available data showed no instances that this was ever substantiated.