Dummy Rounds

['88Scrat]

I wasn't sure but figured this is the best place to post about something like this.

My question is pretty simple really. What is the best way to render a round insert without destroying it?

Let give some background into why I want to do this, maybe someone has a better idea. I love milsurps! When I go to local shows and whatnot I always thought it would nice to be able to do a poor man's muzzle erosion check (you know, putting a round point first into the barrel and seeing where it stops) on some of the old rifles I come across.

The practice of carrying around loose ammo is frowned on and I completely get why, it only takes one idiot after all. I thought if I could disable the rounds no one would have a problem. But I don't want to mess with the seating of the bullet in the case.

Rounds in question would be like 7.5x54 French, 7.65x53 Argentine, 6.5x55 Swede, and other such oddball calibers.

Any ideas?

[berettaprofessor]

I don't know of any way to 100% reliably render an already loaded round inert. If you have the dies, you can dump the powder, pull the primer, and reseat the bullet, but that's the only way I make dummy rounds.

I keep a primerless and powderless round for every different bullet and cartridge that I load; helps when resetting seating dies to the proper length.

[Pahoo]

My question is pretty simple really. What is the best way to render a round insert without destroying it?

There are a number of options on doing so and there some on YouTube. You can make your own or buy factory ones. Ya just got to go looking. I'm not talking about snap caps but dummy rounds. I've got a number of them that were made by Winchester. ……

Be Safe !!!

[Reloadron]

I always thought it would nice to be able to do a poor man's muzzle erosion check (you know, putting a round point first into the barrel and seeing where it stops) on some of the old rifles I come across.

With that in mind I would just carry around some bullets of your choosing. I guess you could also drill a small cavity in a bullet and insert a piece of stiff wire and solder it in place. Just make sure you know where the bullet you choose is the diameter you want.

When I want dummy rounds, normally to check the cycling of a rifle I just take empty cases, size them, drill holes in them and seat bullets which you don't want to do so I would just carry some bullets in my pocket since you have no need for an entire case.

Ron

[Aguila Blanca]

I agree with Reloadron. For a muzzle check such as described by the OP, a complete cartridge isn't necessary. Take one cartridge, pull the bullet, fire the empty case to discharge the primer and toss the case (or set it aside for reloading, but I get the impression the OP doesn't reload).

[Cirdan]

If I was in charge of the gun show, I'd throw you out for loading anything that even vaguely resembled a live round into a gun. We really don't need more stupid mistakes.

Buy a snap cap. One that's vividly colored differently than a live round.

['88Scrat]

I reload shotgun shells but haven't gotten to rifle rounds yet.

Reloadron, not sure I'm following you. What are you describing?

[Reloadron]

88Scrat:

Reloadron, not sure I'm following you. What are you describing?

OK, what you are describing is looking at muzzle erosion using a bullet as seen below with some old M1 Garand barrels.



Since you are not interested in cycling an action and checking any form. fit or function all you really need is some bullets. I guess you could call it a poor man's muzzle erosion gauge but it has a few downfalls. While the bullet will eventually hit a stop you need to know where that stop is with respect to what is the bullet diameter when the stop happens? Bullets within a caliber have different contours and some bullets will seat deeper than others.

My suggestion with using a bullet if you want to get fancy is drill a small hole in the base and insert a piece of rigid copper wire and solder it in place. This gives your test bullet a little handle. Again, as shown above will work for what you seem to want to do. Less a reloading bench to actually make dummy rounds it is difficult to convert a live round to an inert round.

When I make inert or dummy rounds I generally drill holes towards the base and insert mechanical pencil erasers in the primer pockets. Again if all you want is a rough idea of muzzle erosion just carry a few bullets.

Dummy Rounds


Before I forget the image I used is mine and if anyone wants it for anything feel free to snatch it and the domain it is linked to is also mine. I mention this based on a conversation with Unclenick.

Ron

[Metal god]

88 , since you have a general understanding of reloading . My recommendation is pull the bullet , dump the powder , pop out the primer the reseat the bullet . . I know it sounds like a lot but it's really not . I think you could do it with out a press for under $20 start up cost . Get and impact bullet puller and pop the bullet out . all the powder will poor out at the same time . Now the primer can be tricky if you want to remove it while it's live but if you have a rifle chambered in that cartridge just put the empty ( no bullet or powder case in the gun and fire of the primer ff . This will allow you to use any pin type method to push the primer out . You then can reseat the bullet any number of ways by hand to the original COAL .

['88Scrat]

Well, I actually have had some success now. I got a hold of a bullet puller hammer and was able to remove all of the powder from the cases with no damage to the bullet itself. A cotton ball on the end of the hammer saw to that.

Looks like restating the bullet won't be as big an issue as I thought it would so I'm good there.

Now...

How to remove an unfired primer?

[Reloadron]

Well, I actually have had some success now. I got a hold of a bullet puller hammer and was able to remove all of the powder from the cases with no damage to the bullet itself. A cotton ball on the end of the hammer saw to that.

Looks like restating the bullet won't be as big an issue as I thought it would so I'm good there.

Now...

How to remove an unfired primer?

Wow, back on topic.

As to the primer? I would just choot it if possible. Chamber you now empty case and choot it.

Hopefully getting your now free bullet seated well enough to do what you want to do will go well.

Ron

[Metal god]

If you have the rifles chambered in the cartridge , just fire them off in the gun . Then pop them out with a punch that fits through the neck and thin enough at the tip to fit through the flash hole ( easy enough to make with a file or grinder ). Set the case on a stack of 3 or 4 washers that's hole is a tad bigger then the diameter of the primer but still supports the case and drive out the primer or a shell holder . You can do that with a live primer as well but I don't recommend that with out some real safety precautions in place .

[big al hunter]

If you don't have the rifle to shoot the primer in, soak it with oil. I am not sure how long it will take to make it inert, so I would give it a few days. Primer flash holes vary by manufacturer. They can be as small as 1/16 inch.

['88Scrat]

It occurs to me that I might be over thinking this. Any reason I couldn't just take the empty brass to the garage and set off the primers in a vice with a nail?

Obviously this would be a terrible idea with a loaded round (grenade comes to mind) but without the bullet and the powder dumped I wouldn't think it would be any worse than a firecracker going off. That said, I'd still have the ol welding gloves, Carhartt jacket, and face shield handy.

[Metal god]

It occurs to me that I might be over thinking this. Any reason I couldn't just take the empty brass to the garage and set off the primers in a vice with a nail?

I don't know maybe . You need to grab the case tight enough to allow for that sharp hit but at the same time not damage the case in any way . Remember your goal is to have a spec case when you're done . Bending , denting or tweaking the case at all will mess that all up .

I'd say grab the case at the strongest thickest part and use leather between the case and the vise to help minimize damage to the case .

What do you use to deprime your shotgun shells ? Can you use that with one of the smaller shell holders ? It's pretty safe to punch out live primers on a press . I've/we've all done it at some point , just go slow and push it out . Make sure the press has no powder or primers in or around it just to be safe .

[Reloadron]

It occurs to me that I might be over thinking this. Any reason I couldn't just take the empty brass to the garage and set off the primers in a vice with a nail?

Long as the primers don't fragment you can likely do that. Any reason you can't just fire them in the rifles they were intended for?

Ron

[big al hunter]

Any reason I couldn't just take the empty brass to the garage and set off the primers in a vice with a nail?

I have done that. It is nearly as loud as the gun going off. Wear ear plugs too. Sparks come out the end of the case, so make sure no flammable liquid is nearby. I hit the primer too hard and pierced it, still went off. I was young and dumb, haven't done it that way since the first one.

[higgite]

Originally Posted by '88Scrat

When I go to local shows and whatnot I always thought it would nice to be able to do a poor man's muzzle erosion check (you know, putting a round point first into the barrel and seeing where it stops) on some of the old rifles I come across.

Since I haven't seen a response to Reloadron's post #8, I'll ask why you need a dummy round and can't just use a bullet? A bullet is much less likely to cause a stir at a gun show than holding a rifle in one hand and a cartridge in the other that only you know is a dummy. Just curious.

['88Scrat]

I suppose I could use just a bullet but in the past I have used this test on for example a Garand and found there can be a huge difference in barrel life between a 1/4" of space to the case neck and an 1/8". Seems like just using a bullet could make that kind of hard to measure.

[Reloadron]

I suppose I could use just a bullet but in the past I have used this test on for example a Garand and found there can be a huge difference in barrel life between a 1/4" of space to the case neck and an 1/8". Seems like just using a bullet could make that kind of hard to measure.

Look, if you want some Garand dummy rounds I see you are in Kansas. I'll make you up 8 rounds using sized brass with holes drilled like the ones I posted earlier using 150 grain FMJ bullets and send them to you in an enBloc clip.I can put dummy rounds in the mail. Consider it a free bee . So if you want some just let me know. Yours for the asking,

Ron

[big al hunter]

a 1/4" of space to the case neck and an 1/8". Seems like just using a bullet could make that kind of hard to measure.

Seems like you need a way to mark the bullet somehow. Maybe just cut the case in half so everyone can see it is just a gauge. No more primer to deal with either.

[F. Guffey]

Let give some background into why I want to do this, maybe someone has a better idea. I love milsurps! When I go to local shows and whatnot I always thought it would nice to be able to do a poor man's muzzle erosion check (you know, putting a round point first into the barrel and seeing where it stops) on some of the old rifles I come across.

Some barrels require counterboring to remove the muzzle wear. After that it becomes a choice of shortening the barrel and re-crowning or leaving the rifle with the counterbored hole. The hole can be 1 inch + deep.

It is believed the muzzle wear is caused by abuse when the cleaning rod is run in and out. The hot high metal cutting gas escapes behind the bullet, there is little I can do about the hot high pressure metal cutting gas escaping but I did change the way I clean barrels.

I made a barrel cleaning system that all but eliminates muzzle wear. While I was at it I 'fixed it' it so it was impossible to lock up in the barrel. I was impressed at how clean the system cleaned barrels. I dug most of the material I use out of a dumpster.

I have no ideal what you will accept when it comes to tapper but if someone could make up their mind what is acceptable a go/no go gage could be make and there are different ways to make a tapped gage.

F. Guffey

[Unclenick]

You can mark bullets just by opening your caliper to a desired diameter and setting the bullet nose down between the jaws and turning it to get a mark. Mr. Guffey's suggestion of a tapered gauge is a good one. Buy a 3" #6 taper pin to cover your whole range of bore diameters (it tapers from 0.3410" down to 0.2786") except the 6.5 mm. You will need a #5 for that. It will drop about 0.0208" for every 0.001" wider the hole ithat you are gauging is. You can put magic marker down it side and use a height gauge or a caliper to mark line the graduations in the ink, or you can put fresh magic marker on it each time you check a muzzle and measure the pin diameter at the mark each time.

I have removed all the posts that went Off-Topic. I will establish a sticky thread on headspace and future comments on the topic can all go there. It's been beaten to death on a regular basis, so it's time for a permanent place for this information.

[Gary Wells]

Not saying that this is a good idea for other reloaders or not, but when I build a dummy round I always insert a used primer in backwards so that I know that it is not a live round.

[Reloadron]

Regarding my offer I made you ten including eight in a GI enblock clip. They are on the way USPS so look for them on Saturday. I also sent you a PM.

Ron