10mm or .45 for reloading?

[TruthTellers]

I've had my sights set on a 10mm Glock for many months for several reasons, the main one being it's a powerful semi auto pistol caliber. Can't say I'll be in bear territory often if ever, but what intrigues me with 10mm is it can shoot .40 level power up to the full house 10mm.

I intend to handload the ammo as 10mm isn't cheap. I have the dies and I also have .40 guns and brass, so I can load .40 too.

However, I have to wonder if .45 wouldn't be better. Brass is available at the range for free, there are more options for guns in .45 than 10mm, and .45+P is nothing to sneeze at.

I'm not set up for loading .45 ACP and the only gun I have that can shoot it is my Ruger Redhawk.

I guess what I'm asking is should I abandon the 10mm for .45+P or should I stick with getting one given my curiosity with the cartridge?

[bamaranger]

I'm going to suggest that you go on and get the 10mm Glock. The cartridge is as popular as it's ever been, and acquiring sufficient brass to keep your new pistol running should not be that difficult, at least at the present time. Since you already reload for .40 S&W, you may have .40 projectiles on hand that will facilitate the process as well. The 10mm is oft and rightly criticized for coming up short in the numbers department with some factory ammo. Handloading will allow you reach real 10mm ballistics.

I think you will also find that packing the Glock, especially a G20, will be a treat, and far easier than your Redhawk. My G20 basically retired my 4-5/8" Blackhawk, 4" M27, and 4" M629 .44 Mtn Gun, as it is so much easier to tote, both weight and profile wise.

The .45 acp shines as a low pressure auto cartridge and I am not a fan of hotrodding it for better performance. You mention your Redhawk and I believe that model revolver is set up as dual cartridge arrangement , ie .45acp/.45 Colt. I'd think a full power .45 Colt load would exceed anything powerwise the .45 acp case could possibly yield.

[COSteve]

I own pistols in, and handload for SA pistols in 38spl, .357mag and 45 Colt as well as for semi-auto pistols in 40s&w, 10mm, 45acp, and 45 Super. (Note I don't shoot a 9mm.) I think the best caliber hands for SD including defense against 4 legged creatures is hands down the 10mm, especially if shot from a 6" barreled semi-auto like the Glock G40.

My custom 6" slide Glock G20/21L I developed way back in 2004, long before Glock or anyone else thought of a 6" 10mm, can shoot both 10mm and 45 with just the swap of a barrel and mags and the 6" barrel in both calibers really helps performance. Especially the 10mm where it produces velocities using Power Pistol powder that are hundreds of fps faster than in a 4.6" barrel.

Ballistically, the 45acp or 45acp+P in any bullet weight from 185 to 230grn can't hold a candle to the performance of 10mm in any bullet weight from 155 to 200grn. It's not even close. As the bullet weight drives the price of reloading, the reloading costs are very similar excluding brass, for a given bullet weight. Amortizing the cost of 10mm brass over 6 loadings means that the costs of loading the 10mm is comparable with a 45acp or 45acp+P as most of the bullets I shoot in my 10mm are 165grn vs 200grns for 45.

Comparison of chrono'd performance of my 10mm handloads with my 45acp, 45acp+P, and 45 Super handloads performance in my G-20/21L:

6" G20L 10mm using Power Pistol powder:
165grn handloads @ 1,503fps = 827ft/lbs ME
180grn handloads @ 1,479fps = 874ft/lbs ME
200grn handloads @ 1,383fps = 849ft/lbs ME

I also have a 165grn 'nuclear' load I developed that does 1,589fps and 925ft/lbs ME - YES, 1,589fps!!

6" G21L 45acp:
200grn handloads @ 916fps = 381ft/lbs ME
230grn Winchester @ 897fps = 411ft/lbs ME

6" G21L 45acp+P:
200grn handloads @ 1,103fps = 540ft/lbs ME
230grn handloads @ 1,009fps = 520ft/lbs ME

You have to go up to a 45 Super to equal the performance of the 10mm

6" G21L 45 Super using Power Pistol powder:
200grn handloads @ 1,291fps = 880ft/lbs ME
200grn handloads @ 1,307fps = 891ft/lbs ME

The recoil of the 10mm, even my 'nuclear' load, is surprisingly not harsh as one would think. It's a definite strong push rather than a snap. In part that is because of the longer 6" slide and barrel of my custom Glock or the G40 Glock produced over 10 years after I developed mine. There also isn't the barrel rise of a magnum caliber in a revolver as the bore axis of the Glock is significantly lower than any revolver so followup shots are much quicker.

However, the same can't be said for my 45 Super loads in the same platform (only different barrel and mags). For some reason, it produces a much stronger recoil. Still no snap, however, the push feels much stronger and I honestly don't know why, it just does. Not just to me but to everyone I let shoot it.

[BBarn]

I'm a fan of the 45 Auto, but if I wanted more power I'd definitely go with the 10mm. Nor would I make availability of "free" brass a significant factor in the decision.

[lee n. field]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I've had my sights set on a 10mm Glock for many months for several reasons, the main one being it's a powerful semi auto pistol caliber. Can't say I'll be in bear territory often if ever, but what intrigues me with 10mm is it can shoot .40 level power up to the full house 10mm.

I intend to handload the ammo as 10mm isn't cheap. I have the dies and I also have .40 guns and brass, so I can load .40 too.

However, I have to wonder if .45 wouldn't be better. Brass is available at the range for free, there are more options for guns in .45 than 10mm, and .45+P is nothing to sneeze at.

I'm not set up for loading .45 ACP and the only gun I have that can shoot it is my Ruger Redhawk.

I guess what I'm asking is should I abandon the 10mm for .45+P or should I stick with getting one given my curiosity with the cartridge?

Pick one.

.45 is an easy and forgiving cartridge to load. A big wide cup for powder. But you can run into subtleties to solve.

.45 ACP guns and ammo are everywhere. 10MM, not nearly so much.

Don't worry about brass. Over time, you'll end up with plenty.

[Nick_C_S]

lee n. field pretty much covered it.

I load for both 45 ACP and 10mm Auto. 45 extensively - since Oct '84. 10mm since '14.

Both are fairly easy semi-auto cartridges to reload. But I'd give the nod to 45 ACP. As lee n. field stated, it's got a "big wide cup" for powder. I call it a low aspect ratio - it's a short n fat cartridge . It's easy to see the powder charge; and that bodes well for loading safety.

Bullet types for 45 are very plentiful. Also, and this is a biggie: 45 ACP plays nice with lead - real nice. I load and shoot a lot of lead in 45 ACP. Can't beat lead for target accuracy.

10mm is a struggle with lead slugs. It can be done, but all the stars in the universe have to be in perfect alignment. IMO, if you choose 10mm, just plan on loading plated and jacketed bullets. I'll get disagreement here; but whatever. My experience is what I am sharing.

If range shooting recreation is your goal, the 45 ACP is the easy choice.

You mentioned the potential of crossing paths with the occasional bear. (I am inferring you mean use for hiking where you may have to deal with some 4-legged critter.) If such is the case, the 10 is clearly the better choice. But if it were me, I'd be carrying my 8" 44 Mag. Point is, we're likely in different places there. So that may skew your choice toward the 10.

How 'bout both?

[T. O'Heir]

"...in bear territory..." Yogi(and Cindy) couldn't care less what firearm or cartridge is used. In any case, if he/she is within 100 yards when you PO either one, you won't ever be fast enough and no handgun cartridge will make the slightest difference.
In most places, there is far more selection of components in .45 ACP than there will be 10 mm. Avoid "range brass" too. You have no idea what's been done to it or how many times it's been done.
"...set up for loading .45 ACP..." Set of dies and a shell holder. Available anywhere reloading kit is sold. Don't even think about anything but carbide and taper crimp. It's only the sizer die that's carbide, but it makes life so much easier.
I'd be rethinking the .45 +P idea too. The 'P' is about Pressure. SAAMI says Max pressure for .45 ACP +P is 23,000 PSI. 21,000 PSI for the regular ACP. The velocity isn't higher enough(It's only about 100 to 200 FPS more in factory ammo.) to make any difference. Isn't usable in all .45 ACP pistols either. Glocks apparently are +P rated though.

[stagpanther]

I'm a huge fan of 10mm and have reloaded it for countless "grades" but it has issues--namely it's a teeny weeny little capacity for all the awesome power it generates in those "neutron bomb" grade cartridges Steve talks about. It is in every sense a "mini magnum" so you'll need to keep a close eye on case health and head support if you plan on "taking walks on the wild side." a stout 45 acp; even +p is easier to control in quick fire IMO and won't hit as hard in recoil. Just things to think about. The 10mm may be the better gun if a brown bear is breaking into your house.

[TruthTellers]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

The Glock I'm likely getting is the 40 MOS. I have been a revolver guy for years, but the practicality and ease of carrying a 10mm beats any .44 Mag, .454, or other big bore magnum power revolver. I'd argue that the accuracy of the 10mm is better too, not too mention fit and finish and build quality.

New made revolvers today aren't what they were of 30+ years ago.

But my focus here isn't on 10mm vs big bore revolver, it's 10mm vs .45. .45 Super does look powerful and that's what I would go with if I went .45.

I don't really care about shooting lead in semi auto cartridges, I view the rimless cartridges as jacketed bullet only for best feeding and also because it doesn't tempt me to cast for them.

Not too mention I wouldn't shoot lead in a Glock anyway.

The main reason I'm looking at loading 10mm is to not have to deal with the downloaded 10mm ammo that most factory loadings are. Also 10mm ammo of any flavor is expensive.

Being able to load .40 is nice, I can shoot the Glock 27 more and .40 and 10mm will be able to share bullets.

When it comes to JHP, we know the story with 10mm using .40 velocity JHP bullets, but what about .45 Super? Are there JHP projectiles designed specifically for .45 Super velocities?

[stagpanther]

Shooting lead in a 10mm pistol--which I do on occasion (very affordable low recoil practice) is not your "full power" proposition since in the 10mm you'll be limited by the hardness of the projectile vs velocity. My original 20SF barrel isn't designed to handle lead--but the newer Glock barrels are. I use EFK and lone wolf after-market barrels for most of my reloads. You'll also need to pay very close attention to belling the mouth and lightly crimping the bullet after seating (some bullets are not exactly the same diameter, even if they say so on the box)--there's very little tolerance slop between getting the proper case mouth headspace and having a bullet too loose, which can lead to nastiness like seat-back under recoil or bullet fall-out upon feeding. I've found that hollow points with sharp, thin noses where they are hollowed out tend to catch more easily on chambering than say a round nose or solid like extreme penetrators (my favorite pistol bullets).

[AgedWarrior]

The folks at Beartooth Bullets make a nice 200 gr. FN GC bullet that performs quite admirably in 10mm auto when seated on the proper dose of AAC #9. I am running a load with these bullets that is just under 1200 fps in a 5” barrel, and the flat nose bullets feed great in my RIA 1911. If you are possibly dealing with Yogi, though you are better off not, these will punch deep and hopefully give Yogi a problem if reasonably well placed.

[stagpanther]

The folks at Beartooth Bullets make a nice 200 gr. FN GC bullet that performs quite admirably in 10mm auto when seated on the proper dose of AAC #9. I am running a load with these bullets that is just under 1200 fps in a 5” barrel, and the flat nose bullets feed great in my RIA 1911. If you are possibly dealing with Yogi, though you are better off not, these will punch deep and hopefully give Yogi a problem if reasonably well placed.

I think I have a 500 count box of those--as well as some 180's (which seems to be the sweet spot weight for best velocity/energy in 10mm). I also shoot my 10mm loads through a couple of PC AR's which attain much higher velocities than my pistol barrels so I have to watch that, though a 200 gr lead cast at 1200 is very respectable and undoubtedly deep penetrating.

[AgedWarrior]

I agree, 180’s are optimum in my opinion too. I mostly shoot jacketed in the 10mm, but I have been wanting to try some heavier cast lead bullets, and these with gas checks are pretty sweet. I have been thinking a 10mm carbine or PC AR might be fun. I imagine the cartridge performs pretty good with a longer barrel. My 40 S&W carbine gives great performance with a 16” barrel, 10mm ought to be a lot of fun!

[stagpanther]

I agree, 180’s are optimum in my opinion too. I mostly shoot jacketed in the 10mm, but I have been wanting to try some heavier cast lead bullets, and these with gas checks are pretty sweet. I have been thinking a 10mm carbine or PC AR might be fun. I imagine the cartridge performs pretty good with a longer barrel. My 40 S&W carbine gives great performance with a 16” barrel, 10mm ought to be a lot of fun!

They are--but 10mm is about the limit for a blowback pistol cartridge--you need a pretty heavy carrier/buffer/spring to handle it--and as a consequence the bolt holdback (if you have one) will take a heavy pounding and break if you don't have a very strong one. Glock-style mags have to be positioned just right or cartridge jams at an angle upon chambering can be epidemic. Not all carriers work as well with the 10mm--I recommend the latest KAW VP carrier. I'm very partial to Lehigh valley extreme penetrator in all my 9mm and 10mm applications--though they are expensive but they never seem to have issues reliably chambering--and are the most accurate bullets I load for PC ARs

[Ruger45LC]

Here's my .02. I've had both many times over, and I don't really see the point of the 10mm at all, not with .40 around. As for the .45, brass is much cheaper because even if you don't have any, you can buy once fired 45 ACP brass pretty cheap, or I should say, much cheaper than 10mm brass.

Power wise I've loaded up .40, 10mm, .45, and .45 Super about as high as you're going to get them. The most powerful is .45 Super, which my setup was a KKM 4 port barrel in a Gen4 Glock 21. The 10mm is powerful yes, but it's not at the same level. I could run 250gr .45 Super as fast as 10mm 180gr, plus you can run up to and over 300gr with .45 Super. From the above mentioned KKM G21 setup (5" barrel when you factor in threading) I've ran 185gr .451" XTP to 1600+ up to 300gr hardcast .452" at 1150 fps. That's incredible versatility (I want to note that with a well supported barrel the .45 Super and the 460 Rowland are identical, but with the Super you don't have to have a special barrel, just a well supported .45 aCP barrel like the KKM, oh and it needs to be comped at those levels).

The .40 is no slouch, from a similar barrel length the .40 can be loaded to within 100 fps (or less with lighter bullets) of the 10mm, and yes I'm talking about top end loads, not to mention .40 brass is considerably less pricey than 10mm, which is why I don't really see the point of the 10mm. I'd rather have a .40 than a 10mm because it's cheaper and the performance levels are really too close to justify the added cost of 10mm. If I wanted something that could cover it all in .45 the G21 would be it. Factory .45 ACP and the potential of running .45 Super just makes it a lot of gun for the money.

[mr bolo]

I recommend sticking with the .45 acp

especially if you already use the same caliber for your M1911's

then you wont need to buy extra reloading supplies, bullets, dies, brass, I like to keep my ammo supply simplified and only use standard calibers

I keep hearing the same excuse "I need it to protect from possible BEAR ATTACK" , thats very unlikely, if it was that risky, why would you even travel in BEAR COUNTRY? and risk your life or your families lives

the 45 is the more practical round in my opinion, if i need something with a little extra stopping power, I have .45 auto Critical Duty 220g +P

10mm is becoming more popular right now, but it will eventually phase out again and the 45 will still be popular

[gwpercle]

Don't abandon the 10mm .
I will advise that every shooter should have one 1911 in 45 acp . I find reloading for the 45 acp , everything from cast bullet target loads to +p hog and deer hunting loads to be about the easiest one going . It's not picky as to loads . Plenty of time tested data out there .
Keep your 10 mm , save up and get the 45 acp when you can ...now you have two good guns to work with.

Gary

[tipoc]

I guess what I'm asking is should I abandon the 10mm for .45+P or should I stick with getting one given my curiosity with the cartridge?

You in a rush? Have a terminal illness?

Seems that the decision is this: Which one to play with first? You don't have the money or time to play with both simultaneously so you have to begin with one of them. Also unless you are 90 years old and the docs say you are on a timer, then you have years ahead of you.

You already have the reloading tools for the 10 (which seems like a clue as to which you are more fascinated with) so go with the 10mm. When you are ready look at the 45.

BTW 45+P is silly thing. The 45 acp is just fine as it is, with bullet selection being critical. Want more power in a wheelgun go to the 45 Colt in a strong enough gun.

tipoc

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by gwpercle

Don't abandon the 10mm .
I will advise that every shooter should have one 1911 in 45 acp . I find reloading for the 45 acp , everything from cast bullet target loads to +p hog and deer hunting loads to be about the easiest one going . It's not picky as to loads . Plenty of time tested data out there .
Keep your 10 mm , save up and get the 45 acp when you can ...now you have two good guns to work with.

Gary

That's what I was planning on doing, but a 10mm now and get a .45 later after I move to a state that allows me to own a suppressor.

.45 Super is what intrigues me most with a semi auto .45, but I'm not sure who makes barrels for .45 Super and for what pistols. I assume Glock and 1911's, but I really have no interest in a Glock .45 (better .45's out there) and a 1911 has never interested me.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by tipoc

You in a rush? Have a terminal illness?

Seems that the decision is this: Which one to play with first? You don't have the money or time to play with both simultaneously so you have to begin with one of them. Also unless you are 90 years old and the docs say you are on a timer, then you have years ahead of you.

You already have the reloading tools for the 10 (which seems like a clue as to which you are more fascinated with) so go with the 10mm. When you are ready look at the 45.

BTW 45+P is silly thing. The 45 acp is just fine as it is, with bullet selection being critical. Want more power in a wheelgun go to the 45 Colt in a strong enough gun.

tipoc

"We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

I bought the .40/10 dies because I have .40 and was set on getting the Glock 40 10mm around Christmas.

I agree with .45+P, it's not worth playing with, better off getting a .45 Super.

[stagpanther]

You obviously want both--you just want good reasons from this forum to justify the expense. I'll make it simple for you; get SA's 1911 style 6" elite operator in 10mm--and their XD 45 for 45acp' and the occasional 45 +p if you are so inclined.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

.45 Super is what intrigues me most with a semi auto .45, but I'm not sure who makes barrels for .45 Super and for what pistols. I assume Glock and 1911's, but I really have no interest in a Glock .45 (better .45's out there) and a 1911 has never interested me.

The only gun for which is recommended a different barrel for 45 Super is Glocks, and that's because their case support is poor.

No other guns require a different barrel for 45 Super.

See this thread, post #20: https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=603498

[mr bolo]

HK USP45 / HK USP TACTICAL / HK USP EXPERT 45 are designed to handle a steady diet of +P

[44caliberkid]

I don't know how often you go to the range, but 10mm shooters who don't reload leave their brass at my range quite often. I can usually pick up 50 cases or more per month.
There was a real life bear attack story circulating about a year ago. The guy had a Glock 10mm. He got one shot off, into the charging bears mouth, before it was on him. He started pumping rounds into the bruin while it chewed on his left arm and head. Then the pistol experienced a stoppage and while being mauled by the bear, he saw there was bear hair stuck in the slide. He was able to rack the slide and clear the jam, with the bear still chewing on him, and finished off the magazine, the bear expiring after the last shot.
I knew two hunting guides in Alaska and both carried bear spray and 12 gauges with slugs for bear protection. If a bear decides to take you, you have seconds (that you could count on one hand) to take action.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

You obviously want both--you just want good reasons from this forum to justify the expense. I'll make it simple for you; get SA's 1911 style 6" elite operator in 10mm--and their XD 45 for 45acp' and the occasional 45 +p if you are so inclined.

I picked up my Zastava M70 .32 mini Tokarev and this is my first time dealing with a single action only semi auto trigger... I'm not impressed. I shot it fine, but I'm more use to striker fired triggers like Glock or DA/SA triggers, so no 1911 for me, ever. Not my cup of tea.