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Old November 6, 2019, 02:58 PM   #26
old roper
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Bart. Record BR groups are just one part of BR match. You have to shoot BR match to get record group. It's not like what you did and bragging about it wasn't ever shot at match. You may think your expert but you couldn't shoot BR match,long or short yardage and win.

Now here is your chance to make bet?
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Old November 6, 2019, 03:08 PM   #27
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You can get a tiny group or aggregate without shooting benchrest. Some make a living doing that. Some of their aggs are smaller than benchrest record aggs. There are record groups shot in F class matches where shouldered rifles in prone resting on bags or bipods are allowed.

I've known for years I couldn't win at benchrest. Never had any interest in any shooting sports where marksmanship was not paramount. My rifles are not designed for free recoil shooting. Same as benchrest rifles won't win in 3 position matches where artificial support ain't allowed and some require 4.5 pound triggers. In some prone matches, scopes aren't allowed and triggers have to hold 3.5 pounds. Position matches require 3 times as much marksmanship skills as benchrest matches.

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Old November 8, 2019, 12:27 PM   #28
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Just to add some fuel to the fire I built my long range rifle in 8mm Remington Magnum.
Why? Because I can push a 200-250 grain Sierra Match King type bullet out at 3,200 FPS out of my 36" barrel and the 8 mm bullet shape can really buck the wind.
There are many .308 magnum type calibers out there reinventing the wheel so I built the rifle just to prove a point and to see what the cartridge could do with today's powders that just did not exist when the cartridge hit the market in the 70's.
With the JP muzzle brake there is no recoil to speak of and shooting the rifle all day long in the desert is just plain fun.
The rifle is very accurate at 1,000 yards and hits the target if I do my part at a mile with no problems at all.
Brass is still out there and can be made from most of the Weatherby Magnum brass as well as .300 H&H Magnum.
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Old November 8, 2019, 03:13 PM   #29
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big medicine

Weatherby 340mag necked down to 30 caliber.
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Old November 9, 2019, 07:46 PM   #30
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Yes, muzzle brakes reduce the nasty recoil of 32 and 33 caliber heavy bullets leaving well over 3000 fps. But only after the accuracy robbing recoil moves the bore axis in all directions pointing different places as bullets leave.

I think a 30 caliber rimless bottleneck round burning 70 grains of powder under 220 grain bullets is the best compromise of all factors involved.

Last edited by Bart B.; November 9, 2019 at 08:56 PM.
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Old November 11, 2019, 02:36 AM   #31
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As to the OP's input.
Hunting 400-500 yards with ocassional targets out to 1,000 yards, yeah the Rem Mag can easily handle that.
Would i suggest it though?
No.
That's a lot of powder burnt. If you shoot a rapid string your gonna really heat up that barrel, and going to have a relatively short barrel life.
7mm-08 will get the job done hunting to your distances. I wouldn't push it any further for hunting though. 1,000 yards? Sure! Plus a long barrel life. (Comparatively)
280 Rem, 284 Win would possibly be the better choice though.
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Old November 11, 2019, 08:55 AM   #32
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I'm going to have to disagree with you on the muzzle brake statement. when I built the rifle a lot of effort was given to barrel nodes and how they would or would not be a factor.
After much research the JP muzzle brake was decided on as it does not push the barrel in any direction other than forward. Once zero was found ( see target) and a load worked out the brake has never caused any problems with long range accuracy.
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Old November 11, 2019, 09:40 AM   #33
Bart B.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidrob View Post
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the muzzle brake statement. when I built the rifle a lot of effort was given to barrel nodes and how they would or would not be a factor.
After much research the JP muzzle brake was decided on as it does not push the barrel in any direction other than forward. Once zero was found ( see target) and a load worked out the brake has never caused any problems with long range accuracy.
Where on the muzzle axis vertical whip angle did bullets leave before gas ejection pushes the brake and barrel forward compared to without the brake?

That brake changes the barrel's vibration frequencies and angles at the muzzle as well as its node places (zero vibration points at different places) while bullets go through it. It acts exactly like a tuning weight.

Last edited by Bart B.; November 11, 2019 at 11:37 AM.
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Old November 11, 2019, 12:06 PM   #34
Ernie Bishop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart B. View Post
Yes, muzzle brakes reduce the nasty recoil of 32 and 33 caliber heavy bullets leaving well over 3000 fps. But only after the accuracy robbing recoil moves the bore axis in all directions pointing different places as bullets leave.
I think a 30 caliber rimless bottleneck round burning 70 grains of powder under 220 grain bullets is the best compromise of all factors involved.
Theory versus actual performance and accuracy at close and far targets...I will take real world over theory any day!

Does a a muzzle brake add weight to a barrel, like a tuner would? Yes
Does that mean that good quality brakes negatively affect accuracy? NO!

Depending on the group LG and HG in 600 and 1K BR use brakes.
In some disciplines you cannot use a brake for HG.
These brakes are not always connected with a tuner.
These rifles turn in fabulous accuracy.
King of the 2 Mile, and comps like them all use brakes...Some of them are quite massive.
I don't care whether you use a brake or not or whether you choose a cartridge that uses under 70 grains or over 70 grains.
Choose what you want for the tasks that you want, so that you get the performance you are looking for.

I have never had a problem with brakes robbing me of accuracy, and I imagine I have used more muzzle brakes on more barrels (both short barrels as short at 7", but more often 14" and longer to 28") than most.
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Old November 11, 2019, 02:48 PM   #35
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My point is, adding a brake means you have to retune your load for each range you'll shoot at.
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Old November 11, 2019, 02:55 PM   #36
Ernie Bishop
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My point is, adding a brake means you have to retune your load for each range you'll shoot at.
Maybe, but not necessarily.
Only way to know is to shoot it at those distances.
I have competed with the same set-up for both LG and HG at a grand. For this discipline at the time, I could not use a brake for HG, so I used a brake for light and didn't for heavy...No problem.
Same way with a can.
POI changes are possible/likely as well.
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Old November 11, 2019, 03:33 PM   #37
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Facts are, adding the brake changes both the frequency and amount the muzzle axis wiggles up and down. A given load's barrel time stays the same but the bullets will leave centered about the line of fire that's now a different angle and spread from the line of sight.

If perfect positive trajectory compensation for the unbraked barrel's load was attained, the braked barrel can shoot the same load into a greater elevation spread. Or into the same spread but reversed on the bore downswing which shoots fastest bullets out higher angles than slowest ones.
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Old November 14, 2019, 05:23 PM   #38
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Bart just read your post. If you dislike BR why all your comments about it. You never set any type records. Of course you never had anyone one witness your group.
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Old November 15, 2019, 09:20 AM   #39
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Bart just read your post. If you dislike BR why all your comments about it. You never set any type records. Of course you never had anyone one witness your group.
I have noticed all kinds of theory, but it doesn't seem like there is actual experience in some of these things...What do I know I am just a new guy.
Hey, I added a tuner to my F-Open rifle.
Am I expecting a change in POI or group size, well, of course I am, unless the perfect tune is where it happened to be set.
A lot of folks get brakes added to hunting rifles and there is more than one reason of why the gun is going to have to be re-zeroed...
Most of the time their groups remain fine as well, while at other times there may be some bullet depth seating changes.
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Old November 15, 2019, 10:24 AM   #40
Bart B.
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Bart just read your post. If you dislike BR why all your comments about it. You never set any type records. Of course you never had anyone one witness your group.
Not worth my time nor good for this forum to publically respond in detail to your misconceptions and ignorance.

Especially since you're making comments about something you dislike.

Last edited by Bart B.; November 15, 2019 at 11:03 AM.
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Old November 15, 2019, 11:09 AM   #41
Bart B.
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Originally Posted by Ernie Bishop View Post
I have noticed all kinds of theory, but it doesn't seem like there is actual experience in some of these things...What do I know I am just a new guy.
Are you wanting to notice actual differences in steel tube's vibration frequencies between two different lengths but the same diameters?

Consider this stuff:

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/articl...g_a_barrel.htm

https://www.varmintal.com/atune.htm

Create your own barrel profile using this site to see how the muzzle axis moves vertically.

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/articl...vibrations.htm

Use a 1.2 millisecond barrel time to see the angle.

Last edited by Bart B.; November 15, 2019 at 04:08 PM.
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